npb748r Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 so I think this is my first post on here. I brought this kit a month ago and have been following the build reviews with interest. I'm about 60% through the build, have some AM bits (engine, front, cockpit, waist PE plus bit o lace decals). I've been come back to modelling in the past 18 months (I'm 52) after 20 years of not buying or building a kit following non-stop kit bashing since I was about 10 years old. Since restarting, I've built 2 1/350 ships, started the 1/200 bismarck and started but not completed 2 1/32 aircraft - I'm not a completer finisher in life as well as modelling ! The B17 will be completed, it's the best kit I've ever built and definitely the best aircraft - on a par with the 1/200 bismarck. I can't see the issues with the kit, I don't have the knowledge to be able to spot the inaccuracies nor do I really care. I like watching Nigel correct his kit, mainly with envy at his modelling skills where he makes things happen that I can only dream of. My issue with the last 3 pages on this thread is that it is really negative, I know it reflects what you feel but it's not what I feel, which is the complete opposite to you. I paid a stack of cash for this kit and haven't stopped smiling since. It has got me in a space, model building-wise, that I've not been in for decades - I can't wait to pick it up and carry on. I would hate for this to be the last HkM 1/32 big kit, I'm desperate for the Lancaster, would sell my wife for a Halifax (my dad was a rear gunner on them in 298 squadron) and would happily accept both with the same errors that;s highlighted on this thread. Those of you with more skill will be able to build vacforms of these aircraft, I can't, I'm not that good a modeller. So for me, the B17 is fantastic. If anyone is reading this forum from HkM, then please don't just take negative feedback, make sure it's balanced, as I wont be the only average modeller that is more than happy with the kit, warts 'n all. Keep posting the corrections, it's stunning work. neil Derek B, A340 Pilot, scvrobeson and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Welcome aboard Neil, and nicely spoken. Kev Iain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showtime 100 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 An honest, straight-forward question: At this rate, is the HK B-17 worth $150? There is not disputing it's a beautiful kit at casual glance and the parts fit fairly well or better. It's just the above list keeps getting longer and longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Good to see some smilies! Seriously - it's meant to be FUN - discussion (positive discussion that is) about how to improve a model should be encouraged - to be used, or not used, by individuals to taste according to how they choose to 'cook' their models. For heavens sake - we're all on the same team aren't we? Great hobby - let's not spoil it by taking shots at each other eh? #justsayin Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 It's just the above list keeps getting longer and longer. I think you can apply that to almost every kit ever produced - they are all, more or less, a compromise - some more so than others. Every kit I've ever started to go through with a fine tooth comb has thrown up issues - and the better known the subject - the sooner we spot the 'issues' - and usually more of them. Iain Jeff T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfly Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited)   Let's not get this thread locked fellas....  Let's keep discussion on topic and lets drop the personal attacks.  32 pages is mostly beneficial information and I for one, would like to keep it that way.  I'm sure there are many others who feel the same.  If you feel the need to sling personal insults, please reconsider.  Agreed Tim...It seems like we are all efforting a solution to this kit..some people are hard at work researching, checking and re-checking. I don't think its fair that these people put in the hard work (Nigel, Bruce, TimC,GaryW) and not be compensated with replacement parts or a new kit..iF HKM CORRECTS these issues for the F...then new buyers are lucky...but where does that leave us...who were loyal and trusting in the beginning....WE were told that we are getting the most accurate B-17G !...We trusted that.... Nigel's hard work....will be fixed with a click of a button and HKM ..they will sell thousands of copies to new buyers??? We feel a little duped with the original review...i think we are all a little upset about it. The B-17G was in developement for over 3 years..now there gonna look into it? Edited October 17, 2013 by superfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 My issue with the last 3 pages on this thread is that it is really negative, I know it reflects what you feel but it's not what I feel, which is the complete opposite to you. I paid a stack of cash for this kit and haven't stopped smiling since. It has got me in a space, model building-wise, that I've not been in for decades - I can't wait to pick it up and carry on. I would hate for this to be the last HkM 1/32 big kit, I'm desperate for the Lancaster, would sell my wife for a Halifax (my dad was a rear gunner on them in 298 squadron) and would happily accept both with the same errors that;s highlighted on this thread. Those of you with more skill will be able to build vacforms of these aircraft, I can't, I'm not that good a modeller. So for me, the B17 is fantastic. If anyone is reading this forum from HkM, then please don't just take negative feedback, make sure it's balanced, as I wont be the only average modeller that is more than happy with the kit, warts 'n all. Keep posting the corrections, it's stunning work. neil well said Neil... I too am amazed at how this thread has gone south - I would say that if you asked anyone before the HK kit was released if they would tolerate the corrections these knowledgable guys have found and still buy it, 95% would say 'hell yeah' - afterall it's a 1/32 B17 - a game changing release and for LSP fans like us the start of what will be a really exiting journey with HK manufacturers always strive to offer the best product within the constraints of the budget, knowledge & technology available to them - sometimes there must be compromises, sometimes there will be oversights, sometimes there will be plain and simple mistakes.. Jennings has already said they are taking on board the feedback - that is the sign of a progressive company that cares about it's products and it's customers and to be frank I would think they would be horrified to read of their efforts being derided in this way perfection in kits is a rare thing... I grant you WNW are pretty much there but then if they did a B17 it would certainly be accurate but I suspect 3 - 4 times the price of the HK kit and then only please the specialists and deny those that either accept it as is, or like me enjoy taking a kit as a canvas and 'correcting' it myself just sayin.. Peter Lee White and Iain 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showtime 100 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I think you can apply that to almost every kit ever produced - they are all, more or less, a compromise - some more so than others. Every kit I've ever started to go through with a fine tooth comb has thrown up issues - and the better known the subject - the sooner we spot the 'issues' - and usually more of them. Iain (Disclaimer: I speak for myself only) You bring up a good point. The premium price for said model is what is fueling my disappointment. It's almost a direct insult given the premium price vs accuracy. Had the price been, say, $200 USD; The disappointment would be proportionately less. Also; The 1/48th scale Hasegawa F-22 sits in the back of my mind when I discuss the HK B-17. The F-22 came out originally at a premium price. Due to customer reaction of ONE discrepancy said premium price fell like a rock. I believe by as much as 50% less. Still $75 USD is 'doable'/within budget/reasonable for most modelers. $300 USD, on the other hand, is a whole new league/ballgame! 'Ignorance is truly bliss', as I summarize a poster here. Casual modelers who are not familiar with the B-17 won't notice the discrepancies. But for the more serious modelers, they are going to notice. And those observations of said discrepancies are fueled by the premium price. If said B-17 model was selling for $97 USD, said discrepancies would be a lot more forgivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) Tim - I'll pass that list along. But "nose windows incorrect" doesn't help much. What's incorrect? Size? Placement? Dimensions? Proportions? Is it reasonable to expect them to totally re-design the kit based on a list like that? Nope. Ain't gonna happen. I don't work for HK, and I have no special influence, but I will certainly pass the list along. Thank you. I know they won't redo everything and there's some things that we as modelers can add for ourselves. However, the misshapen nose, windscreen, instrument panel are all children of the incorrect circular nose cross section in the bulkhead 3 area. I would expect that if they're going to fix the nose, they'll have to fix those other issues as well. B-17 side nose windows came in three sizes according to the IPC, one of each size on either side of the nose (cheek gun installation not present) I do not know the exact sizes of those windows but I can find out with an email or two. If they're going to do the B-17F, they'll have to include the retractable 50 caliber gun on the sliding mount in the radio room. To mount that sliding apparatus, they'll almost have to recreate the upper radio room structure otherwise there would be nowhere to mount the gun, retracted or in the firing position. There really should be a place for the 1/32 plastic radio operator to sit as well. There are spare seats in the G kit and if HK tools some seat structure, we can use one of the spares to mount in the radio room. The strike camera door is another necessity. That thing is front and center when viewing the radio room from the hatch. That step needs to be removed. HK can reference what one modeler did in this thread to eliminate the step. We as modelers shouldn't have to do that much to a $300 kit. I'm willing to do some customizing but I draw the line at that. I will fix it on the G. The convex upper, aft fuselage from bulkhead 6 to 9 definitely needs to be addressed. The fuselage line should run straight from bulkhead 6 to bulkhead 9. The curve makes the lady look fat. The interior of this kit needs to be revamped to a certain extent. The huge gaps in the bomb bay roof (at around 10 and 2 o'clock) where the turtledeck and the lower fuselage meet are supreme eyesores. If one opens the bomb bay to expose the interior they'll be hit with those two railroad track gaps. Even with bombs mounted (which by the way are incorrectly installed in the instructions and need to be rotated to fit) the gaps on either side stick out like a sore thumb. They don't need to add the chemical toilet though as it was usually removed. Edited October 17, 2013 by TimC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I suspect this thread is over-hyping the accuracy issues somewhat. Sure, they're there, but as Neil said, many an average modeller simply isn't going to care about them. Those of us who do have a right to do so, and can vote with our wallets, or elect to fix the problems. This laser-beam focus on what's wrong with the kit is distorting perceptions of the overall balance of the kit's qualities. Kev Iain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Sage words Kev... Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showtime 100 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Name me a kit these days that doesn't have a list that's long and getting longer. With a kit this huge and this complex, there are bound to be issues. Also, when it comes to "missing" items, on something this complicated there has to come a point where the line is drawn. They're not trying to give you a 1/32 B-17. They're trying to give you a replica of a B-17. They couldn't possibly include each and every doo-dad and hoo-ha that the real thing had inside of it. The kit would cost $600 (imagine the howls). Imagine if the Monogram B-36 kit came out today. It would be immediately labeled "unbuildable" because it's a mish-mash of B-36 variants that accurately represents none of them. Name a kit with a $300 USD price tag and with the popularity of the B-17 with as many discrepancies as the HK B-17? The issue is not the list of discrepancies. The issue is the premium price tag AND the list of discrepancies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfly Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) Can't post the link right now...but if you google B-17F CAD image ...you will see HKM's upcoming B-17F Edited October 17, 2013 by superfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 <bangs head against wall> I'm off to build something - anyone care to join me? Iain scvrobeson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showtime 100 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 <bangs head against wall> I'm off to build something - anyone care to join me? Iain "...Could we have Kippers for breakfast, mummy-dear, mummy-dear?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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