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My Bf109 manufactory

ChrisK89

By ChrisK89
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ChrisK89

ChrisK89

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After a long time without having a works in progress thread running i'm obviously starting a new one right here and now :innocent:

 

As the title suggests i'm going to build some Bf109 planes. One of which will be another refurbish but 2 are completely new.

Thanks to some forum members i could get my hands on the very hard to get Hasegawa Bf109K-4 (at least in Germany/Europe) and now finally i have all the AM stuff to build em right.

 

I planned to build all three Messers parallel so it may take some time to finish em but i'm young and have plenty of time so it's no deal breaker for me.

The first plane i'm going to redo is my old Bf109 F-4 Trop to satisfy my perfectionist side (my wife is always laughing at me cause im investing so many time and money into some "dust collectors") but i think you guys all understand me :hmmm:

 

I already managed to dismantle and decolour it but i'm not 100% sure which scheme i want for it...

IMAG1007.jpg?raw=1

 

These 2 are my choices... i personally would prefer white 1 but my wife likes the yellow 3 cause "it has a yellow 3" :doh:

Unfortunately I don't have the armored windowglass for the outside of the canopy left so if anyone got this piece and doesn't need it i am willing to buy it. Thanks in advance.

 

IMAG1008.jpg?raw=1

 

 

The other 2 birds are going to be Bf109K-4s with maaaany aftermarket goodies so be prepared:

IMAG1009.jpg?raw=1

 

The schemes i chose unfortunately are a little confusing.. i wanted to build Blue 16 of 12.JG27 and Red 7 of 10./JG27 but somehow the information on Red 7 i could find are very inconsistent. Eagle Cals shows Red 7 with RLM81/83 camo and RLM76 sides without a yellow nose ring and no antenna mast. Revell says it is painted in RLM81/82 with its yellow nose ring AND an antenna mast installed and Kagero #29 is showing it (okay here it is shown as Blue 7 but in the end it is the same bird as my infos suggest) with RLM81/82 camo, yellow nose ring but no antenna mast and the fuselage sides are depicted as painted in RLM99??? (i always thought this egg green was unofficially named RLM84?).

I'dont really know what to do.. maybe anyone has some more infos on that and can push me in the right direction? Anyway are the pictures i am referring to:

IMAG1010.jpg?raw=1

IMAG1011.jpg?raw=1

IMAG1012.jpg?raw=1

 

So let's get the birds on the road.

 

cheers Chris

Edited by ChrisK89
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Hardcore

Hardcore

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Welcome to the confusing world of late war messerschmitt cammo archeology!

The K-4 was almost exclusively built in Regensburg(only a few were built at Erla IIRC). There are color photos clearly showing that weird color on the sides called RLM84. The opinion is divided if it was something new, or just old plain RLM76 in a detoriated state (inferior late war paints). That the color so clearly show up on just planes from this factory indicates, to me, that it was indeed something real. If it was diluted RLM02, or thinly applied RLM76 on yellow primer, is not yet known. I suspect there newer was any entirely new color issued to the manufacturers. 

The later position, that is was just discolored RLM76, is based on the total lack of documentation for such deviation from the norm. Adherents to this view just blame the color on paint detoriation, unreliable photo evidence etc.

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ChrisK89

ChrisK89

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Hmm if the greenish/yellowish fuselage color is indeed discolored RLM76 why is there a difference in fuselage/wingtips/nose/aileron colorization? Shouldn't it be the same color all around?

I remember i've read somewhere that this greenish/yellowish paint could also be just some sort of primer (RLM99??).. who knows.

 

But the second question still remains.. the green for the upper camo on Red/Blue 7 is stated as RLM82 in the Kagero book and Revell instructions but RLM83 in the Eagle Cals offering, what color should i go for?

 

In the end it means i should go with the "late" war typical paint arrangement? Bare metal wings, RLM76 wingtips, ailerons, flaps etc. and a RLM84 fuselage? Is this correct for both Blue 16 and Red 7? Or just for Red/Blue7? 

This is so goddamn confusing...

 

Another thing..

 

While playing with putty to get rid of some panel lines on my 109F i found some infos that irritated me. I was using some line drawings i found on the internet so maybe these infos are incorrect but i don't have any book regarding the 109F so i have to stick with that. The red encircled panel lines.. did they exist on a 109F-4?

f4_top_trop.jpg?raw=1

 

thanks for all your help so far.

 

cheers Chris

Edited by ChrisK89
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dodgem37

dodgem37

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'if the greenish/yellowish fuselage color is indeed discolored RLM76 why is there a difference in fuselage/wingtips/nose/aileron colorization? '

The aircraft was made in sections then these were delivered to Regensburg for final assembly.  Distributing fabrication minimized loss to Allied bombing.  Different sub-contracters painted their sections then shipped them to Regensburg for final assembly.  The JaPo book Bf109G-10 in Czech Territory has a sectional  breakdown.  Although there are specifications that a painting manufacturer had to follow, the raw materials may not have been available to them to match the specifications so they either left it out or substituted something else.  Or, they did not have enough raw material (pigment) to make the volume required.  Both would cause a value shift or color change for the same color.

 

This looks like a drawing you may have gotten from The109Lair.  If so, I think you can use it as a reference and not be chastised for doing so.

 

'the green for the upper camo on Red/Blue 7 is stated as RLM82 in the Kagero book and Revell instructions but RLM83 in the Eagle Cals offering, what color should i go for?'

Both illustrations indicate a similarly valued green.  Match that.  I have a K-4 on the back burner that I painted as per an illustration I have.  I don't recall if it is 82 or 83, but what I do remember is that I was told that Model Master paint, which I use, got the color identifier wrong.  Meaning, Model Master paint labeled as RLM 82 is labeled wrongly and should be labeled RLM 83, and vice versa.  So, match the color.  Use the deeper green, not the bright green.  At least that's what I've been told, and am doing so.  

 

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Mark

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Hardcore

Hardcore

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What Mark said. I can add that it probably never existed any green RLM 83 either. A document found by Mr. Ullman indicated it was a blue color used on aircrafts regluarly flying over sea. http://theprofilepaintshop.blogspot.se/2014/03/barracuda-studios-bf109g-10-erla-decals.html Mr Hjortsberg have a short thoughtful analysis of late war german green colors here, and some very nice profiles.

 

Oh, he also have paint recommendations.

Edited by Hardcore
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  • 2 weeks later...
ChrisK89

ChrisK89

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Short update on my Bf109's.. i decided against using the Aires Cockpit. Instead i'm using the Eduard interior + scratchbuilding. I used the Aires Cockpit as a guide but i don't know if its 100% correct so i checked with some drawings i found and made some adjustments/compromises. Respectively this:

109K-4Layout.jpg?raw=1

Starboard side and cockpit floor are now ready for painting! But first i have to build the portside and instrument panel.

 

IMAG1020.jpg?raw=1

IMAG1021.jpg?raw=1

IMAG1022.jpg?raw=1

IMAG1023.jpg?raw=1

 

cheers Chris

Edited by ChrisK89
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ChrisK89

ChrisK89

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Thanks for the answers and informations regarding my questions!

 

@martinnfb  

I guess this plane on the picture is Red7 as it is shown in a really bad shape so maybe at the time it was Blue 7 it had the yellow nose and spiral? Ahh no worries.. with my rate of progress i have plenty of time to decide on the final finish.

 

@Hardcore

You're right.. they are very dark but on some photos of very late war K-4 you can see the dark fuselage crosses and i think i can remember reading somewhere they were oversprayed with RLM84 or RLM99 (you know the strange greenish RLM76 thingie everyone is breaking their necks about)

 

But i guess in the end i have to go with some artistic licenses

 

 

cheers Chris

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Martinnfb

Martinnfb

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Hi Chris, in regards to K4 from Prague. It is not clear whether this number seven was blue or red , Japo stated blue in one book ( 109K) and red in another (me262 and arado 234 final operation). What is more than obvious, is the fact that this plane has never had a yellow nose, or spiral. This misconception came to play, when somebody mistakenly confused the light area f the nose as a yellow. In reality it s aluminium or grey oil tank. The missing cover is visible on one of the photographs. Black nose was one of the features symbolizing reich defence units. So once again, no yellow, no spiral. instead you can focus on overpainted number 1 or as Hardcore noted , the defusing of the crosses. Also this aeroplane wasn't that beaten during it's operational service. The damage was caused after the war by " aviation enthusiasts ". 

Cheers

Martin

Edited by Martinnfb
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