Spitfire Mk1. Differences between Mid and Late

[Tolga ULGUR]

1 hour ago, 19squadron said:

I am really surprised people have not picked up on some of the issues - the de Haviland prop form I would have thought was very obvious. The real thing [like a Spitfire] is just the most glorious shape, really exquisite, the kit part is really wrongly shaped and proportioned - dumpy honestly, but to illustrate that [I have a library of photos of original wartime blades] I have to photograph the kit part, and sufficiently well to illustrate the issues.

 

Yes, I think we all understand the two issues mentioned.
- De Havilland Propeller

- and propeller control unit inside the cockpit.
Is there any else? Because you mentioned "lots of errors".
Are all errors these two, or are there other errors? 

If there are any, I would like you to mention them, because this way they are left in a fog of unnecessary mystery.

I'm a minimum of 3 hours away from the UK by plane, so I haven't had the opportunity to see an original early Spitfire 1 with my own eyes. That's why, I could not notice the issue of the propeller.

 

Thanks

[Pete Roberts]

5 hours ago, DonH said:

I thought I was a Spitfire nerd, until I started digging into the evolution of the Mk I and realised I knew nothing.

 

Amen! I have been studying these things for 50+ years and the more I discover, the more I realise I don’t know. Some interesting info here that I am madly noting, appreciating all the posts. It seems there is always something new to learn with this plane - quite the enigma. And so many of its characteristics hard to replicate! 

 

I spent >40 minutes with N3200 at Duxford, sitting in it, and crawling over it and came away with some great info, but also later realised there was heaps I DIDN’T get. I think a lot of the time was spent in awe….

Edited December 27, 2023 by Pete Roberts

[19squadron]

1 hour ago, Pete Roberts said:

 

Amen! I have been studying these things for 50+ years and the more I discover, the more I realise I don’t know. Some interesting info here that I am madly noting, appreciating all the posts. It seems there is always something new to learn with this plane - quite the enigma. And so many of its characteristics hard to replicate! 

 

I spent >40 minutes with N3200 at Duxford, sitting in it, and crawling over it and came away with some great info, but also later realised there was heaps I DIDN’T get. I think a lot of the time was spent in awe….

Have you met Mo and his team that built N3200?

 

What was it that you didn't get btw?

[thierry laurent]

The MK.I evolution is a minefield. This was surely the mark built and modified during the longest period in the Spitfire airframe history. The production moved to a single factory to multiple ones intended to leverage production and the war conditions also noticeably modified the picture. Not surprisingly the Mk.II essentially appeared to get a more standardized production. Note that, as I already wrote more than once, there are multiple other Spitfire and Seafire marks that are very badly documented. However, they were typically built in far smaller batches and for a far shorter production time.

[19squadron]

9 minutes ago, thierry laurent said:

The MK.I evolution is a minefield. This was surely the mark built and modified during the longest period in the Spitfire airframe history. The production moved to a single factory to multiple ones intended to leverage production and the war conditions also noticeably modified the picture. Not surprisingly the Mk.II essentially appeared to get a more standardized production. Note that, as I already wrote more than once, there are multiple other Spitfire and Seafire marks that are very badly documented. However, they were typically built in far smaller batches and for a far shorter production time.

That is well said!

 

To which I will add that Supermarine lost a lot of people in the bombing of the factory on 24th september 1940, 110 killed and many injured, all of whom were highly skilled people who had been making essentially hand-made bespoke aircraft for years. The people on the English wheel who made the panels, especially the leading edges, the engine cowls, fuel tank armour etc, were exceptionally skilled, artists in their field in fact, which meant aircraft built after the bombing were necessarily different in very subtle ways. These changes of manufacture are to my mind very significant in the understanding of what this beautiful aircraft is all about, and Thierry, I absolutely agree with you in what you have written.

[19squadron]

Has anyone noticed the release of the Kotare Spitfire MkVa has slipped a bit? I bet they realised back in june/july when they were told about the downward-firing Plessy dispenser they needed a new fuselage sprue? Anyone see a throttle quadrant with CS control on the new sprues here?  Maybe they will add that as a result of this thread too?

[19squadron]

Just now, 19squadron said:

Has anyone noticed the release of the Kotare Spitfire MkVa has slipped a bit? I bet they realised back in june/july when they were told about the downward-firing Plessy dispenser they needed a new fuselage sprue? Anyone see a throttle quadrant with CS control on the new sprues here?  Maybe they will add that as a result of this thread too?

[Pete Roberts]

2 hours ago, 19squadron said:

Have you met Mo and his team that built N3200?

 

What was it that you didn't get btw?

Didn’t get to meet the team - they were busily refurbishing the Merlin and getting it back together. 

 

I missed a lot of cockpit detail, in retrospect, but did get a good look at the wheel wells and the accumulator point (the cowls were off) Would also like to have taken a bit more time taking in the general appearance and detail of the fuselage. Closed the door and canopy while I sat in her - VERY claustrophobic! And very little room to move, some controls almost impossible to get to and absolutely no vision behind.

[rsanz]

1 hour ago, 19squadron said:

Has anyone noticed the release of the Kotare Spitfire MkVa has slipped a bit? I bet they realised back in june/july when they were told about the downward-firing Plessy dispenser they needed a new fuselage sprue? Anyone see a throttle quadrant with CS control on the new sprues here?  Maybe they will add that as a result of this thread too?

No, clearly it was not "...realised back in june/july..."  2023. Because the downward firing Plessy device hole has been planned for in the plastic since at least 2022. 

[19squadron]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:09 PM, Pete Roberts said:

Didn’t get to meet the team - they were busily refurbishing the Merlin and getting it back together. 

 

I missed a lot of cockpit detail, in retrospect, but did get a good look at the wheel wells and the accumulator point (the cowls were off) Would also like to have taken a bit more time taking in the general appearance and detail of the fuselage. Closed the door and canopy while I sat in her - VERY claustrophobic! And very little room to move, some controls almost impossible to get to and absolutely no vision behind.

This is N3200's cockpit, very carefully rendered from the recovered airframe.

Edited December 29, 2023 by 19squadron
addition of pic

[19squadron]

13 minutes ago, rsanz said:

No, clearly it was not "...realised back in june/july..."  2023. Because the downward firing Plessy device hole has been planned for in the plastic since at least 2022. 

Ahaaaaa, Richard Alexander appears. so just a new Wing sprue is required ? with the forward flare chute removed from the lower wing, and a throttle quadrant with CS prop  levers on a new port fuselage side to add to the new sprue?

Edited December 27, 2023 by 19squadron

[MikeMaben]

OK I'll ask ...  what's a plessy device/dispenser ? 

[thierry laurent]

25 minutes ago, MikeMaben said:

OK I'll ask ...  what's a plessy device/dispenser ? 

Flare launcher.

[Pete Roberts]

Was later changed to fire out of the upper starboard rear spine, about midway, hence that little red patch over the aperture typically seen on Mk Vs.

 

Didn’t realise it was initially installed to fire through the belly, like the earlier flare chutes. This plane continues to surprise. So many changes!

 

[19squadron]

7 hours ago, MikeMaben said:

OK I'll ask ...  what's a plessy device/dispenser ? 

The Plessy Recognition flare dispenser was a means for otherwise firing a flare from the open cockpit - notice how none of these kits including the Kotare have a flare  pistol and holster despite having the flare cartridges along the front edge of the seat on MkI's? Anyway the Plessy device replaced the need for the flare pistol and seat flare rack, which was none the less retained especially on Seafires. Here are some pics in the common post 7th april 1941 location which many will be familiar with.

Edited December 30, 2023 by 19squadron
addition of pic