Sharkmouth to Sabotage - a Hunter's Tale

[Madmax]

On 12/31/2023 at 4:27 PM, Grunticus said:

That seat looks stunning! So clean. Great job.

 

Thanks Grunticus! I see in your Storch build that you too are an industrious manufacturer of miniature aircraft seats... 

 

On 12/31/2023 at 6:40 PM, Biggles87 said:

Great seat.

I’m pleased to see that you’ve correctly depicted the overhead pull handle as the ‘D’ type held back in the middle by the strap and safety pin rather than the ‘ spectacle ‘ handle seen on later seats.

 

John.

 

Hmm , interesting observation John. I always thought the early MB handles looked odd, and it never occurred to me that it was actually a 'D' type once the pin was removed!

 

On 12/31/2023 at 11:38 PM, Sepp said:

That seat is phenomenal. Chapeau!

 

Sepp, that is very kind of you. Intrigued by the use of the French acknowledgment, the Patrouille picture and yet, presumably, an English domicile. Hmm again .   

[Biggles87]

I was an Air Cadet many years ago and we had a Martin Baker Mk2 seat at my squadron so I got to know it quite well.

 

John

[Madmax]

Now, where has that airframe gone?

 

Ah yes, in the October 1973 newsletter of the Yorkshire Air News we were led to believe that XF309 (disguised as WP190) was shipped off to the RAF Museum in Hendon. I suspect this is a bit of a red herring. The RAF Museum in Hendon had already been opened by Her Majesty the Queen on 15 November 1972, and I assume the 'Camm Collection' existed with a Hawker Hunter in place, as per this brochure of the time. Unfortunately the serial number is totally obscured in the photo by the pesky little Cygnet.

 

According to the 'ukserials' website (which I consider to be quite authoritative), our Hunter was in fact sold back to Hawker Siddeley Aviation on 08/03/1973 and thence to G-9-420; which I can only assume means a conversion to FGA.9 standard. Where exactly that happened I can't tell, but let's leave her there for now.

 

 

I'm afraid the wheel-well obsession struck again - to a lesser extent that on my Mirages, but still there.  The forward part of the kit moulding is all 'boxed-in', so I cut away much of the sides and the roof. I then added the structure that the battery is mounted to, as well as some basic hydraulic bits and some piping.

 

 

Here you can see the battery and the air/oxygen bottles that will be painted separately before being attached to the framework.

 

 

This is what will be seen from outside, and the intention is just to paint the inside of the fuselage black. I certainly won't be adding ribs and 'stringers' to make for an authentic backdrop! Notice that the canon troughs have been drilled open to prevent the dreadful noise of the first rounds having to clear their own way...

 

 

Some careful checking of the size of the modifications is required, to make sure things still fit into the nose. The substantial nose weight requirement is a bridge that will have to crossed a bit later. I haven't forgotten - yet!

 

 

The undercarriage of this model has raised some concerns over the years, and so it should, when one looks at how thin the lower portion of the main-gear legs are. I bought a set of Scale Aircraft Conversions gear legs, and thought I'd give the nose-gear leg some attention first. The white metal (I assume) mouldings aren't terribly crisp, and the plan was to separate the fork from the strut and then clean it up from there. I didn't get that right, and managed instead to break the strut. That left me no choice but to modify the kit leg. Brass tubing and superglue are wonderful things to work with!

 

 

Once the plastic fork was cleaned up , it became apparent why the kit leg looks so odd (sorry, should have taken a picture). The front portion of the fork casting is too short, and the attachment arm for the oleo piston doesn't end up under the centre of the strut. The darker bits of plastic are my modifications to address that issue. The resin wheel is a lovely Reskit replacement.

 

 

Once assembled, the geometry of the arm and oleo make more sense. Revell would have one attach this leg before closing up the nose section, but my ability to break anything protruding from a model means that won't happen. I'll just cut slots in the fuselage for the locating pins to slide through, and fill them after fitting the leg.

 

 

 

Now for the main wheels. This should be fun!

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

Edited January 9 by Madmax
plurals

[Sepp]

2 hours ago, Madmax said:

 

 

Sepp, that is very kind of you. Intrigued by the use of the French acknowledgment, the Patrouille picture and yet, presumably, an English domicile. Hmm again .   

 

My paternal ancestors were Breton, and Paramé nr. St. Malo is my spiritual home (also my actual home for five years, back in the late 80s/early 90s). As anyone who knows me will tell you, I'm a massive francophile

 

Once again, excellent job on the gear bay and leg!

Edited January 9 by Sepp

[Grunticus]

Great job on that gear!

[Derek B]

3 hours ago, Madmax said:

 

Thanks Grunticus! I see in your Storch build that you too are an industrious manufacturer of miniature aircraft seats... 

 

 

Hmm , interesting observation John. I always thought the early MB handles looked odd, and it never occurred to me that it was actually a 'D' type once the pin was removed!

 

 

Sepp, that is very kind of you. Intrigued by the use of the French acknowledgment, the Patrouille picture and yet, presumably, an English domicile. Hmm again .   

 

Hi Sean,

 

I have looked through lots of images of MBA Mk.2 and 3 ejection seats and I now understand the evolution of the seat initiation mechanics and features. There appears to have been a step change in seat development between the Mk.2 and Mk.3 seats, with interim modifications between the two, so it is important to know which specific type of seat was installed on which mark of Hunter, and when!

 

The main change was in the ejection seat headbox design and specifically, the housing of the ejection seat top (face blind creen) handle and stowage. Essentially, early Mk.2 and Mk.3 ejection seats featured the classic 'D' shaped handle with the face screen release pins and lanyard routed across the front and top of the seat headbox - the top handle safety pin was inserted into a central strap as described by John (Biggles87).

 

Between this and full development of the Mk.4 seat, the 'D' handle was replaced by what appears to be a larger , similar shaped, handle which when secured by the safety strap, may have created the 'spectacle' shape as observed by John. This, in turn, was replaced by a smaller red coloured proper 'spectacle' shaped handle - still with the central safety strap, however, the face screen release pins and lanyard were moved from the front of the headbox to the rear of it, just in front of the release shackle and a partially extended front headbox featuring a 'letter box' aperture to show the handle screen blind into.

 

The full later modification was a fully extended front headbox  with new 'spectacle' shaped top handle with detents like the the Mk.4 (and later Marks, i.e. 5,6,7 etc) ejection seats and a central safety pin location rather than the strap (Hunter T.Mk.7 had these type ejection seats). 

 

So, as MBA traditionally do, it was an evolution of tried and tested features - still recognisable from the Mk.1 and Mk.2 seats - carried on to later setas in an updated and improved form.

 

Cheers

 

Derek

[Cheetah11]

Wow Sean this build is turning out to be spectacular. Incredible attention to detail. well done.

BTW I think the seat is super but needs some patina. I will bring pastels and milk tart 

Nick

[Madmax]

On 1/9/2024 at 3:45 PM, Sepp said:

 

My paternal ancestors were Breton, and Paramé nr. St. Malo is my spiritual home (also my actual home for five years, back in the late 80s/early 90s). As anyone who knows me will tell you, I'm a massive francophile

 

Once again, excellent job on the gear bay and leg!

 

Thanks for the insight Sepp, makes sense now!

 

On 1/9/2024 at 4:06 PM, Grunticus said:

Great job on that gear!

 

Much appreciated Grunticus.

 

On 1/9/2024 at 5:05 PM, Derek B said:

 

Hi Sean,

 

I have looked through lots of images of MBA Mk.2 and 3 ejection seats and I now understand the evolution of the seat initiation mechanics and features. There appears to have been a step change in seat development between the Mk.2 and Mk.3 seats, with interim modifications between the two, so it is important to know which specific type of seat was installed on which mark of Hunter, and when!

 

The main change was in the ejection seat headbox design and specifically, the housing of the ejection seat top (face blind creen) handle and stowage. Essentially, early Mk.2 and Mk.3 ejection seats featured the classic 'D' shaped handle with the face screen release pins and lanyard routed across the front and top of the seat headbox - the top handle safety pin was inserted into a central strap as described by John (Biggles87).

 

Between this and full development of the Mk.4 seat, the 'D' handle was replaced by what appears to be a larger , similar shaped, handle which when secured by the safety strap, may have created the 'spectacle' shape as observed by John. This, in turn, was replaced by a smaller red coloured proper 'spectacle' shaped handle - still with the central safety strap, however, the face screen release pins and lanyard were moved from the front of the headbox to the rear of it, just in front of the release shackle and a partially extended front headbox featuring a 'letter box' aperture to show the handle screen blind into.

 

The full later modification was a fully extended front headbox  with new 'spectacle' shaped top handle with detents like the the Mk.4 (and later Marks, i.e. 5,6,7 etc) ejection seats and a central safety pin location rather than the strap (Hunter T.Mk.7 had these type ejection seats). 

 

So, as MBA traditionally do, it was an evolution of tried and tested features - still recognisable from the Mk.1 and Mk.2 seats - carried on to later setas in an updated and improved form.

 

Cheers

 

Derek

 

Excellent observations Derek. It is interesting how one can trace the Martin Baker lineage through the seat models, and see how the face screen firing-handle changed over the years. The most modern seat I got to ride was the Mk 10, and that didn't have a face screen firing-handle at all!

 

On 1/9/2024 at 6:13 PM, Cheetah11 said:

Wow Sean this build is turning out to be spectacular. Incredible attention to detail. well done.

BTW I think the seat is super but needs some patina. I will bring pastels and milk tart 

Nick

 

Nick, I look forward to the next milk tart occasion. Maybe we can eat the pastels too?

[Madmax]

Finally got the nose gear wheel-well painted, and then remembered this model needs nose weight! 40 grams of it according to the instructions, depending on where you can fit it in. Since I messed with the ideal space, it seemed like a good idea to stack 50 grams around the top on the unmodified well - like this:

 

 

If you have built this model before, you'll probably know that this is a very poor idea, since it now no longer fits into the fuselage. Oh cock! (as James May was won't to say) Just have to take it all out and try again. This time the lead went into the upper part of the fuselage and hidden behind a styrene bulkhead, same as in the forward part of the nose. This is painted grey to form a dark background for the detail in the wheel well.

 

 

This was as much lead as I could fit in the lower portion, and still get it to fit. You can also see just how much superglue and accelerator was holding my misplaced sinkers in place. 

 

 

The cockpit was then glued together, the seat checked to see if sits correctly, and that the red pulley assembly is in the right place. Last chance to see - before it disappears into the tub. I did actually use some pastel dust on the seat Nick, but as you know, it doesn't show up well in photos.

 

 

 

The parts of the nose assembly all fitted together rather well I thought, and certainly didn't need any filler. The detail in the well stands out well, and some spare while stencil decals on the oxygen/air tanks finish it off quite convincingly.

 

 

 

Now my contemplation will shift to the main gear wells, that despite looking ok, are really just a pantograph copy of their 1:72 scale Hunter! This is the 1:32 scale version...

 

 

...and this is the 1:72 scale rendition.

 

 

Going to need some work!

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

 

[Derek B]

1 hour ago, Madmax said:

Excellent observations Derek. It is interesting how one can trace the Martin Baker lineage through the seat models, and see how the face screen firing-handle changed over the years. The most modern seat I got to ride was the Mk 10, and that didn't have a face screen firing-handle at all!

 

Nice Sean! (Same here!) 

 

Derek

[Madmax]

After a rather lengthy contemplation, something finally happened! 

 

It's the bas-relief effort that many kit manufacturers apply to detail that clearly doesn't resonate with me. Even though it can be enhanced with clever paintwork and washes, it still lacks depth. So, I decided to make one particular portion of the wheel well deeper - the bit that sits right up against the fuselage. This section is characterised by ribs, cables and what looks like a drive shaft of sorts. Here is the kit part that was cut out, and the ribs and longerons that will replace the kit's shallow representation.

 

 

I then added some deeper sides to the well and glued on a flat styrene roof. Doesn't look like much from this side, but it actually adds an amazing amount of depth.

 

 

Once the replacement structure is in place, the whole 3-D effect comes to life. You will notice that I also cut shaped ribs to add to the flat 'ribs' that are in the kit. Many of them are doubled-up on the actual aircraft.

 

 

With the added structure in place, it was time to add as much plumbing as I felt I could, without being silly. The real aircraft is actually full of pipes and wires, but much of it is tucked away under a lip, that doesn't exist on the kit (and I certainly wasn't going to rebuild the entire well ). I have attempted to incorporate the kit's plumbing by starting and ending runs at the same points as the kit does.

 

 

 

 

Since the wells were so easily accessible at this point, I figured it was a good time to work on the main gear legs. I have mentioned before that the kit mouldings are very thin towards the bottom, where the wheel attaches. Having bought cast metal legs, I reckoned the problem was sorted. I'm not terribly keen on the shabby look of the metal casting however (which is just the kit part made worse, but stronger). So I thought at any rate. No problem, out came the metal file and sand paper strips, and I set about neatening up the metal leg. After some filing and pulling strips of sandpaper over to oleo to get it to shine beautifully, I discovered that the uneven heating of the metal had curled up the leg like a shrimp chip in hot oil!  

 

I quickly straightened it out while it was still warm, but the muffled creaking sounds it made in the process make me think that my cleaning efforts have possibly compromised the metal's strength? Not wanting to push and prod too much, I decided to look at a way of strengthening the original kit legs.

 

Here is the cleaned (and mostly straightened) leg to compare with the casting straight from the box.

 

 

The kit leg got chopped up and cleaned back to basic shapes. Metal rods have been shoved in wherever possible and a strip of flat brass on the thin lower part of the leg will hopefully do the trick - otherwise the aircraft is going onto jacks - which might even be appropriate as you'll see by the end of the story! At least the Reskit wheel looks great... 

 

 

The retraction/extension piston also got some metal added, for strength, and to get the arm length correct. It all looks rather nice, upside down, with no weight on it!

 

 

Almost time to contemplate the next step - the engine intakes!

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Biggles87]

Wow! That’s a huge improvement on the original, I’m not sure that I’ll be going that far with mine though.

 

John

[BLACK MAMBA]

That really looks good! Can't wait to see a splash of silver over it all!

[crobinsonh]

Superb detailing

[SwissFighters]

6 hours ago, Madmax said:

After a rather lengthy contemplation, something finally happened! 

 

It's the bas-relief effort that many kit manufacturers apply to detail that clearly doesn't resonate with me. Even though it can be enhanced with clever paintwork and washes, it still lacks depth. So, I decided to make one particular portion of the wheel well deeper - the bit that sits right up against the fuselage. This section is characterised by ribs, cables and what looks like a drive shaft of sorts. Here is the kit part that was cut out, and the ribs and longerons that will replace the kit's shallow representation.

 

 

I then added some deeper sides to the well and glued on a flat styrene roof. Doesn't look like much from this side, but it actually adds an amazing amount of depth.

 

 

Once the replacement structure is in place, the whole 3-D effect comes to life. You will notice that I also cut shaped ribs to add to the flat 'ribs' that are in the kit. Many of them are doubled-up on the actual aircraft.

 

 

With the added structure in place, it was time to add as much plumbing as I felt I could, without being silly. The real aircraft is actually full of pipes and wires, but much of it is tucked away under a lip, that doesn't exist on the kit (and I certainly wasn't going to rebuild the entire well ). I have attempted to incorporate the kit's plumbing by starting and ending runs at the same points as the kit does.

 

 

 

 

Since the wells were so easily accessible at this point, I figured it was a good time to work on the main gear legs. I have mentioned before that the kit mouldings are very thin towards the bottom, where the wheel attaches. Having bought cast metal legs, I reckoned the problem was sorted. I'm not terribly keen on the shabby look of the metal casting however (which is just the kit part made worse, but stronger). So I thought at any rate. No problem, out came the metal file and sand paper strips, and I set about neatening up the metal leg. After some filing and pulling strips of sandpaper over to oleo to get it to shine beautifully, I discovered that the uneven heating of the metal had curled up the leg like a shrimp chip in hot oil!  

 

I quickly straightened it out while it was still warm, but the muffled creaking sounds it made in the process make me think that my cleaning efforts have possibly compromised the metal's strength? Not wanting to push and prod too much, I decided to look at a way of strengthening the original kit legs.

 

Here is the cleaned (and mostly straightened) leg to compare with the casting straight from the box.

 

 

The kit leg got chopped up and cleaned back to basic shapes. Metal rods have been shoved in wherever possible and a strip of flat brass on the thin lower part of the leg will hopefully do the trick - otherwise the aircraft is going onto jacks - which might even be appropriate as you'll see by the end of the story! At least the Reskit wheel looks great... 

 

 

The retraction/extension piston also got some metal added, for strength, and to get the arm length correct. It all looks rather nice, upside down, with no weight on it!

 

 

Almost time to contemplate the next step - the engine intakes!

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

Fantastic work on the wheel wells! Makes me want to follow your lead with my own kit. Perhaps too late now, but G-Factor produced landing gear which is as crisp as the original plastic and more than strong enough. Maybe an option if these don't hold up (but I sure hope they do!). G-Factor gear for the Hunter is available through Sprue Brothers and elsewhere. In my opinion SAC stuff is, in most cases, worse than the original in every regard. Looking forward to the next post! Tony