Westland Wasp HAS 1: 1/24th Scale.

[TheBaron]

Afternoon all and hope this finds you well!

Some more Wasp progress to report back on in a moment after the mail:

On 11/15/2023 at 8:57 PM, Out2gtcha said:

Ah, Ok, so its what I thought it might be, a type of slicer program, that can also add supports. Im currently split between Lychee and AnyCubics OOB software (They offer hollowing and punching as a standard feature, where you have to pay to upgrade to "Pro" in Lychee to get that feature), but I am always open for anything that is a better option.

 

Thank you, Ill be giving Voxeldance a shot! 

Hope it helps Brian! 

I did actually griow to like Lychee very much (though it's AA functions never produced usable results on any of my Elegoo printers) over the 18 months I used the paid version of it, but simply find that VDT gives me a much more useful range of support types for the nature of the work I do.

On 11/16/2023 at 12:18 AM, LSP_Kevin said:

Staggering stuff, Tony. The future of the hobby is nigh.

As is increased hair loss at all the problems it throws up! 

On 11/16/2023 at 4:39 AM, Archimedes said:

Hi Tony,

 

I spent several hours reading this thread from the beginning again to catch up with it and thoroughly enjoyed every minute. There are mere kit assemblers (like me) and then there are proper modellers of which there are many here but you crossed the line into artistry a long time ago. Max @mozart has it right: this is proper renaissance man stuff. Not only are you doing all of this but sharing gems of knowledge freely with all that are both integral to the design and build but also the peripheral elements (Pureref for example was one of the gems you let us know about early on). It is hard to add meaningfully to the teetering stack of superlatives relating to your peerless build. Your skills, perseverance and attention to detail have been seen in only a vanishingly few here. This is not modelling: this is model engineering and you do it superlatively. 

 

Thank you for sharing all of your journey with us.

 

Kind regards,

Paul

P.S. Thank you for sharing that you use Fusion 360! A great recommendation. 

It's enormously kind of you to take the time to write such things Paul. All I can say is that witnessing the quality and range of skills you all display on LSP is a fundamental factor that helps nourish my work, in terms of wanting to contribute meaningfully to that pool of skills and ideas. As to sharing knowledge freely, I picked up so many CAD techniques from individuals like Lars Christensen when I started out that I feel you have a responsibility to pay forward to others in my view. Karma etc.

 

Glad you liked Pureref btw!

On 11/16/2023 at 7:46 AM, Starfighter said:

Excuisite! Each update is an absolute pleasure to read. Please keep them coming! 

Try and stop me! 

 

With the production prints for the rear end of the Wasp (at both scales) now  largely resolved it was time to turn attention to the front section of the Wasp, in the form of the cabin area. Stuff like seats and IP etc. I'll leave to a later 'fixtures & fittings' phase - intially I just want to get all the main shapes and interections of parts for assembly sorted out:

One immediate thing which struck my eye studying the reference photography  for these regions was just how much detail I'd missed on the rear wall of the cabin, so the various rivets and fasteners were added:

Some of that of course will be obscured by the padding and framework of the rear seat but too much of it remained visible to ignore. The reverse side of it had a reinforcing frame and screws added as well:

As it was over a year since I'd first roughed out the shell of the cabin it was unsurprising that greater familiarity with the helicopter had sharpened my eyes to any flaws in the initial designs. Overall profiles were fine but various outlines for the doors and windows needed adjusting in places, as well as creating the necessary recesses in the cabin framework for the doors themsevles to fit into:

 

At this point I also added the door handles to use as reference poits for further surface detailing:

The control rods for the rear door handle are so close to the interior panel of the door that they can be printed as part of it:

The front set as you can see stand out far enough that some metal rod/tube will be required to do the job. To enable this  - and similarly for the jury strut that holds the front door open - I've included locating holes in the designs to enable these to be added as scratchbuilt details:

Displaying the model(s) with doors in the open position obviously requires the presence of hinges, so you can see in this view of the front set how these can be added from PE to enable this function:

 

Same routine for the rear doors:

Surface detailing of the rear doors involves basic rivet patterning and a set of mounting screws around the recess of the window frame:

Same process on the front  doors was somewhat more extensive due to the presence of irregularly-shaped reinforcing panels spread around the framework:

Outsides of the doors then received the same treatments:

 

 

The windows themselves were also added as you can prehaps just about make out in the above shot. Due to the convex nature of the rear and front windows I spent quite a while looking at reflection and highlight patterns to help discern the subtleties of curvature in both cases. I'd also taken a decision to initially try printing windows from transparent resin as although I wasn't at all convinced it would prove a practicable process on anything but a one-off basis, wanted to get some experience with the material. To this end, items like the rear window were produced to print using a continuous support method:

Usually for such curved features I would use the sketch/loft process in Fusion to generate surfaces but as an experiment, for the pilot's window started off instead using the 'form' function:

 - to sculpt the required shape freehand:

This latter process wasn't any quicker than doing the rear window with drawings, but did much more readily allow for adjustments, with the resulting shape being of identical quality regarding smoothness.

 

Some renders giving a better look at the plexiglass curvatures:

 

 

Over the course of the last week or so I then did a number of window tests using Anycubic's High Clear resin. I'd done a basic test about 6 weeks ago, leaving it out on the windowsill for that period in order to ensure that there wouldn't be a yellowing problem. In this case the manufacturers' claims are entirely true, not a trace of jaundice!

 

Printing results using High Clear for thin, lightly curves and flat surfaces are however uniformly dismal:

There are two sets of overlapping problems, printing and post-processing.

 

Printing: it's noticable that all the examples I could find online demonstrating Anycubic's High Clear resin were large thick objects like figures and buildings and it's true, they do look very good in the photos. Printed in thin cross-sections however the stuff is quite bendy, leading to minor shape-deformation in in places due perhaps to resistance when moving up and down in the resin.

 

Post-processing: like many transparent resins the initial cured prints here are frosted by print lines so need attention. I followed to the letter the manufacturers' post-processing guide to achieve clarity of wash/cure/apply thin layer of resin/cure/wash/cure under water. This obviously works ok for the kind of bulky shapes seen in advertising  but simply does not function adequately for thin shapes like windows (my window thicknesses were 0.4mm and 0.3mm in thickness for each scale respectively). The resin is also an absolute magnet for any dust and particles in the air, whilst painting on even a very thin layer of resin on an already thin surface produces enough irregularity on the window to be visible. After curing in water a wrinkling also marred the surface in places for some reason. I even tried substituting both Klear and Alacad Aquas Gloss varnishes instead of the thin resin layer but nothing improved matters to a usable level:

Anyone who's ever tried printing transparenciesis of course at this stage screaming at their monitor 'You need to sand and polish transparent resins to get a usable result!!'

 

Absolutely. However Anycubic are selling High Clear on the basis you don't have to. My experience here is that their advertising requires a caveat indicating non-suitability for thin cross sections with gently curving surfaces.

 

If it was just a one-off for me I probably would persevere with sand/polish to get a decent result, however, I need to produce such thin transparencies in multiples at two different scales to sell as kits and the above does not provide a viable route to achive this. My original instinct was that vacforming of transparencies would be required for this project and I think this experiment confirms that 3d printing still isn't ready to replace that (or injection moulded transparencies for that matter) on anything but a bespoke basis at the current time. I can see it being useful for things like navigation light fittings and so forth so won't abandon it completely.

 

Next job then is to have a look at turning those windows into bucks for vacforming. Will this glamour never end?

 

Thanks for reading and take care until next time,

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by TheBaron

[mozart]

Another intriguing update Tony, looking betterer and betterer each time, but the clear stuff is a bit of a problem isn’t it. Being a complete ignoramous (sp?) about these matters I can offer no words of wisdom other than to say that I sincerely hope you find a solution asap but I can see vac forming as an interim measure. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by mozart

[Out2gtcha]

Excellent work for sure, and some good insights too. Thanks! 

[Cycling Guy]

This is providing some valuable lessons. I just got an Anycubic Mono M5s to create my own cockpits.

[Derek B]

5 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Anyone who's ever tried printing transparenciesis of course at this stage screaming at their monitor 'You need to sand and polish transparent resins to get a usable result!!'

 

Absolutely. However Anycubic are selling High Clear on the basis you don't have to. My experience here is that their advertising requires a caveat indicating non-suitability for thin cross sections with gently curving surfaces.

 

If it was just a one-off for me I probably would persevere with sand/polish to get a decent result, however, I need to produce such thin transparencies in multiples at two different scales to sell as kits and the above does not provide a viable route to achive this. My original instinct was that vacforming of transparencies would be required for this project and I think this experiment confirms that 3d printing still isn't ready to replace that (or injection moulded transparencies for that matter) on anything but a bespoke basis at the current time. I can see it being useful for things like navigation light fittings and so forth so won't abandon it completely.

 

Next job then is to have a look at turning those windows into bucks for vacforming. Will this glamour never end?

 

Thanks for reading and take care until next time,

Tony

 

Hi Tony,

 

Mind-blowingly great work, as usual! 

 

I understand your transparency woes. Perhaps a compromise may work? As you have put a lot of time and effort into your transparencies for 3D printing, why not prepare them for clear resin casting instead of vacforming?

 

Cheers

 

Derek

[Anthony in NZ]

Absolutely stunning as always….I hope you don’t get tired of hearing that lol.

@Ali62 does the most amazing clear casting and perhaps that could be an option? I’m more than happy to pay whatever it takes to get a perfect result considering what you’ve already achieved.

cheers

Anthony

[TheBaron]

Guys - thanks for all your kind comments and suggestions - both in the above and over the course of the last few months since I joined. Work is continuing on the Wasp though health and Christmas duties have slowed matters down of late. Full update in the New Year but for now:

 

 

[TheBaron]

The first post of a new year and hoping that this finds the assembled in good spirits.

On 12/5/2023 at 3:17 PM, mozart said:

I can see vac forming as an interim measure. 

I've a dental vacform rig Max so luckily it doesn't require any extra equipment.

On 12/5/2023 at 8:17 PM, Derek B said:

As you have put a lot of time and effort into your transparencies for 3D printing, why not prepare them for clear resin casting instead of vacforming?

 

On 12/12/2023 at 6:34 PM, Anthony in NZ said:

Ali62 does the most amazing clear casting and perhaps that could be an option?

It's a reasonable  suggestion Derek  & Anthony for which i'm grateful, but I'm note sure the combination of compound curves here and thin-ness of cross section I need would lend itself to casting.

 

The last month or so I've been concentrating on getting a lot more of the exterior design details finished off and with future vacforming in mind, alos outputting designs for the various transparency bucks. Luckily I enjoy the hands-on nature of vacforming as an antidote to the virtuality of CAD! 

 

Starting with the latter question of the glazing then, in finalizing designs for the roof panels, one detail which I'd successfully avoided up until now was the rather complex issue of the mounting in the port roof window for the APX/BEZU missile sight, sitting as it does across a set of interacting compound curves. In roughing out some pencil sketches in order to better understand the shape(s) involved, it also became apparent I'd forgotten completely the additional detail of the opaque panel into which the canopy jettison handles are mounted:

Before attempting that however  finalize the designs for the canopy framing along with the various screw and rivet patterns involved:

In terms of assembly, the framework of the rear section will fit into place against the crentral roof beam via the use of some brass rod, for which holes have been left in the print design:

Once both halves of the roof framework are assembled, the back and rear glazing can be fitted into place from the outside:

 - whilst the front section (due to the presence of beading) with slot up into place from below:

Footwell windows/frames also completed:

Again, these items can be fitted into place from the outside, with a small 'lip' around the inside of the opening for the panels to locate against:

It took a couple of days to get right but eventually I got shape of the missile sight about right around all those 'orrid curves and the mounting frames added:

Cutout panel for the sight viewewd from below:

 - and for versions without the sight installed, the raised blanking panel in place:

With those details completed I was the nable to begin collecting the designs together in VDT, preparatory to howlling and supporting for print:

I'm producing two versions of the port roof window so that the kit can be assembled with or without sight, as required. I reckon this will be more user-friendly in terms of avoiding damage to the transparency during the vacform cutting process:

With that done, it was roun d to complete surface detailing of the nose section, starting with the UHF antennae and hinge for the front inspection panel:

Then the deicing nozzles and filler cap for the deicing fluid tank (six pints) were added:

 - along with more rivet and screw  patterns than I care to remember:

Assembly of the windscreen and nose units is facilitated by a central mounting block beneath the lip of the windshield, accompanied by a notch on either side of the cockpit for the front ribs to fit into and so keep things level:

Some rendered views:

 

 

From the nose, the next section I foucssed on completing were the exteriors of the sides and lower section of the cabin areas, with their various panels and rivet/screw patterns

Although the Anycubic High Clear resin didn't pass muster for the main transparencies, it is I reckon a perfect candidate to produce the diminutive navigation lights on either side of the cabin walls:

Then it was back under the nose to sort out the landing light and downward identification light in their asymmetric fairing:

Yes there are light bulbs inside those as I'm going to try the AC High Clear to print those too - such small feartures shouldn't take too long to polish to full transparency. In homage to the classic Airfix undercarriages of yore, I added a tubular mount to the main landing light so that it can be posed either extended or flush in its housing:

The two semi-transparent panels in front of the landing light fairing:

Those foxed me for a while but from trawling through part numbers in the maintenance manual, I believe they are:

Either way, with their honeycomb structure I'll try out the High Clear resin on those too to see how well it reproduces the pattern.

 

Thanks for reading as always and I should have some torpedoes to show you next time,

take care until then,

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 24 by TheBaron

[mozart]

All this artwork should be in the Tate alongside Lichtenstein’s “Whaam!!”. Simply stunning Tony. 

Edited January 24 by mozart

[Grunticus]

Fantastic job you are doing Tony! I really admire this.

[Anthony in NZ]

Just incredible!  I knew this was going to be good, but man o man, this is off the charts!

Thanks for taking us through your journey

Cheers from a gobsmacked and humbled Anthony

[TheBaron]

 

Much to my surprise the exterior details of the Wasp are now completed, leaving 'only' the cockpit and AS.12 loadout to do. Having spent longer though than is probably good for one's sanity on Planet Torpedo recently, it's probably a good idea to list the symptoms below....

 

It started innocently enough in trying to work out the remaing surface features that festoon the helicopter beneath the cabin area:

In the process of working out what went where, it occurred to me that as such prominent features, the torpedoes and their carriers make a useful datum for scale and position of the features surrounding them. Not a whole lot of technical documentation freely available on the Mk.44 torpedo that I could see, but did find a useful summary on general torpedo design procedures produced by US Naval Ordnance Systems (Hydroballistics Advisory Committee) in 1974:

 

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/AD0777092.pdf

 

Of greater help however for the Mk.46, in 1978 Naval Ocean Systems Centre produced a well-illustrated summary in of this Mk. in terms of its physical characteristics and visual appearance of different range Exercise, Tracking and Warshot variants:

 

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA081111.pdf

 

Tying this documentation in with photographic references meant that at least I had some idea regarding the original function of what I was reproducing in scale form:

One problem I stumbled over in my references for the carrier itself was that I had a variey of close-up photographs which, being devoid of wider context, fooled me into thinking that there were perhaps two different types of carrier for torpedoes/bombs. The PNs are explicit however that as the Wasp in its operational lifetime carried both Mk.44 & 46 torpedoes, the same EM/EF 100/1000 was used for both (with no mention of subsequent Mods):

The quandary with regard to what I was seeing in photographs was finally resolved - as always  -  by discovering the missing piece to the puzzle; in this case an image showing a close up of the carrier ID platge which matched the one I could see faintly in the excellent shots which @Anthony in NZ had taken of the carrier on NZ3906:

This clarified that there ween't two different types of carrier, only that the one carrier has a different arrangement of features on each side. The giveaway (once you understand this) in wider contextual photos is the silver cylindrical fuzing unit visible on the Stbd side and the prominent rectabgular ID plate in the centre of the Port side. makes sense in hindsight but you always doubt yourself in such situations reliant upon photography until the evidence resolves itself!

 

Interestingly enough the Weapon Stations graph in the PNs indicates that a Mk.46 was only ever carried on the starboard side of the Wasp.

 

Starboard view of carrier:

Port:

A Mk.44 to hang from it:

I divided the Mk.44 into warhead/fuel-tank/afterbody/propellors(x2) and parachute bag sections for print purposes. to align all the parts during assembly a channel down the middle for brass rod helps everything align along the longitudinal axis, with a similar side channel to line the sections up laterally:

 

Iused the same sectioning/channel methodology on the Mk.46 as well:

Whilst their diameters are the same, the 46 is longer than the 44, with different propellor, parachute and guidance features, as well as differing port/surface features. At the rear, the prominent battery unit and fire control sockets are visually similar hwoever, and, as far as the RN/RNZN are concerned, the same Type-C suspension bands utilised for holding both variants in place:

Assembling the torpedo(es) onto their carrier, I wanted a strong but visually unobtrusive method. The release hook of the real thing obviously wouldn't be strong enough in itself at scale to suspend either torpedo body from, I elected to use a brass pin between carrier and torpedo in a manner that should be largely invisible to the eye when the parts are glude together:

Additional strength and stability will, like the real thing, come from the sway braces:

A Mk.44 and carrier combined:

 

 

A Mk.46 alongside a '44 to to compare visual differences:

 

 

Having those features as visual landmarks on the underside then let me carry out the rather painstaking detective work involved in adding the various small fittings and fuzing units &etc. arrayed around the underside of the cabin:

 

 

This step-like feature to port isn't a step I don't think as it has no counterpart to starboard. My only though it that it might be a parachute mounting for some other payload than torpedoes or bombs but have no evidence or documentation to back that up:

The I-band transponder up front however has a clear purpose as part of the MATCH system between Wasp and frigate, with the pitot inboard of it:

The front diagonal brace of that transponder seems to have an odd 'kink' in it in several of the photos I have:

I thought initially they all just showed the same damaged one but this artefact is present on multiple airframes, leading me to wonder if this  is that so that it follows the contour of the airframe when the transponder is in stowed position:

Again, pure specualtion on my part.

 

The above features with carriers fitted:

 - and a Mk.44 attached:

 

 

 

Renders versions of same

 

 

 

I need a break for a bit after that to start outputting the parts involved there prior to beginning work on the cockpit. It doesn't help that myself and wife are currently addicted to Le Bureau des légendes and bingeing through Season 1 with several more to go. Extraordinary writing and performances. Anyway, before this turns into TV Guide, I wish you all the best until next time.

Tony.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Derek B]

Hi Tony,

 

I love coming to school, er, I mean reading your posts, as they are so educational! 

 

I ran out of superlatives a long time ago, so all I can say is that it is awesome work on a scale that I have never seen before...well done Tony.

 

Regards

 

Derek

Edited February 3 by Derek B

[Copicops]

This is insane, probably one of the best self modelled project I have ever seen.

[Out2gtcha]

Tremendous work!

I could only hope to get to this level of 3D printing and design.