Hobby Boss B-24L (26 Feb 2023: tail turret)

[easixpedro]

Thanks guys.  One last picture of the waist gunners. This guy was cobbled together from various bits, including a resin torso and head. I made it so he's holding the O2 line to his mask. The lines were really long to allow the gunners to walk around.  Personally I can't imagine having that hanging from your face for hours at a pop. Even the ones we wore in modern times got old after a while. (You'll also not the hands dont quite match the arms. When viewed through the window, you can't tell, even with a flashlight. They're close enough it passes the test)

 

Started gluing the fuselage together tonight,  but am going slow and there's a lot of real-estate. Maybe tomorrow l'll do an update on Ploesti.

-Peter

Edited February 10, 2023 by easixpedro

[easixpedro]

3 minutes ago, JayW said:

Oh man Peter - that is very realistic looking.  Adding figures to a model just opens up another world.

Thanks Jay. And concur wholeheartedly.

 

After flying so long, I tend to think of our subjects as living, breathing, things. And they need a crew, especially if in flight as 99.99% of my builds are.

 

Building and painting figures is another skill I'm trying to master and admittedly have a long way to go. But it's rather fun to make animated poses for them.

[scvrobeson]

Nice looking ammo belts! Really helps fill in the waist stations 

 

 

Matt 

[JayW]

I find the swivel mounts for the Ma Dueces interesting.  What a pounding those mechanisms must have endured.  I believe the recoil forces of a 50 cal MG are large, and with a 800 rounds per minute frequency, metal fatigue must have been an issue.

[easixpedro]

6 hours ago, JayW said:

I find the swivel mounts for the Ma Dueces interesting.  What a pounding those mechanisms must have endured.  I believe the recoil forces of a 50 cal MG are large, and with a 800 rounds per minute frequency, metal fatigue must have been an issue.

Yes, those mounts are interesting. I left them out as you can't see 'em behind with framing of the Perspex.

 

As for metal fatigue, I don't think they expected anything to last that long. And if it was an issue, the fact that Ford was making a B-24 every 60 minutes meant they'd just get a new one.  I honestly believe they didn't even think about it until the B-47 came along and they realized that doing bomb-toss maneuvers was causing fatigue and catastrophic loss.

[Anthony in NZ]

On 2/8/2023 at 2:52 PM, easixpedro said:

Was it all worth it? Maybe…

Absolutely mate!  Totally worth it.  I suspect I will ask similar questions when I get to my HpH Catalina.

 

Oh and someone better tend to that other waist gunner, his hand has come off.  That will get messy unless its bandaged 

 

Awesome update, I cant wait to see the fuse buttoned up

 

Cheers Anthony

[easixpedro]

3 minutes ago, Anthony in NZ said:

I cant wait to see the fuse buttoned up

Ask and ye shall receive! 

 

Spent the better part of 2 hours last night sanding. And sanding. And sanding. 

 

But the seams look good.  A few touch ups, but overall pleased with the outcome. Will have to sand the fuselage as well as its rather rough, and you can tell the difference from were I worked the seams. Would be ok for an OD bird, but not NMF.

 

Here's me dorking around with the clear bits. Can see a surprising amount inside the flight deck. And you can cram the nose turret in the nose after its glued up, so that saves me a bit of work.

 

Here's the only seams I need to fix, just in front of the cockpit and the astro dome. 

 

Cool bit about the tail section, is that it snaps into place and is very tight.

 

And here's the beginnings of the tail stinger.

 

Should be able to just plunge mold some clear styrene over it as I don't need the full bit, (a little less than half actually). But more on that as I get to it.

 

Up next, I'll work on getting bomb aiming window on the nose, and fairing it in. But before I do that, I'll polish the fuselage.  That should allow me to minimize the dust getting into every opening. 

-Peter

[Anthony in NZ]

Oh wonderful!  That looks outstanding, it must be imposing in 'the flesh' How impressive is that! Wow....

 

Great update!

[easixpedro]

Personally, I’m interested in how the bombing campaign was conducted.  How an air force was able to coordinate the efforts of a bunch of disparate organizations with the end result of putting the proverbial bombs on the right target at the right time is something of an art form and is very misunderstood. Call it black magic, but that operational level grind of coordinating maintenance, ordnance, flight schedules and the like—all before the digital revolution.  Lots has been written in service schools about the modern air force perfecting this single air manager and coordinating/controlling it all.

 

How did they do it back then?  You might find this link interesting – it describes how the 8^th AF did it: https://www.b24.net/MissionAnatomy.htm

 

It takes a bit more sleuthing, but you can find a treasure trove of information on the 15^th AF as well. Here’s an excerpt I took from the 49^th Bomb Wing site.  Click here and navigate to the 49^th wing: The Fifteenth Air Force (15thaf.org)

If you click on missions, you’ll get a listing of each month’s missions flown. 

 

Boils down to this:

15^th AF Headquarters assigned targets to the various bomb wings the day before a mission.  The bomb wing then developed some details about that mission.  Some examples of what the bomb wing would document include the targets assigned to the other bomb wings so there wouldn't be a problem when so many aircraft were flying at the same time, how the bomb groups would form up for the mission, what the route would be to the target and return, as well as other details about the mission.  This information would be sent to the bomb groups as Operations Orders.  Each bomb group would take this information and develop a plan for carrying out the mission.  Specifically, each bomb group would assign crews and aircraft to the mission.  The crew list would be posted on the bulletin board the evening before the mission.  At a briefing the morning of a mission, the pilots would be handed a typed-up sheet with all the details for the day's mission.  This typed up sheet had a couple of different names - poop sheets or pilot flimsies (in modern parlance, a knee-board card, i.e. a piece of paper you put on a little clip on your thigh).  Following the mission, the crews were debriefed and the bomb group sent a report back to the bomb wing with the results.  This report was called the Operations Report.

 

So I can click on any of the months and cross check the missions my uncle flew and find the Operations Order and in some cases the Operations Report. Drill down one level to the 461^st BG website, https://461st.org/Missions/Missions.htm  and it’s got the mission flimsies. I can literally see what position of the formation they were in and the a/c assigned for at least half of the missions he flew. In some cases, they even have photos from the mission.  Takes a bit of sleuthing, but a veritable gold mine of data.

 

A lot of amateur historical and archival work has been done over the years by a lot of Bomb Group and squadron associations.  I was reading up on the Schweinfurt-Regensburg mission and one Bomb Group has scans of the actual crew debriefs, plus all the above.  Bottom line is it allows you to stitch together a pretty good understanding of how the air war was conducted before an airplane even took to the air. Some might not find it interesting on a model site, but again understanding how all this worked has helped me understand the ‘bigger picture’ as it were. Anyway, a fun rabbit hole to jump down on occasion.

 

-Peter

[JayW]

I have been asleep at the wheel.  Great updates Pete, and a great reminder on just how complex large bomb group operations were.  Also, think how complicated fighter escort group operations were.  Lots to go wrong; lots went wrong.

[dennismcc]

Well I've just spent some time reading through from the begining of the thread, it's full of fascinating stuff, history and modelling all rolled into one.

Keep up the good work.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[GaryCN]

On 1/20/2023 at 8:44 PM, easixpedro said:

Slowly working towards buttoning up the fuselage.  Still need to finish the waist gunners and get the ball turret sorted, as I at least need to see where it all mounts/hangs from.

 

Overall the kit fits well. Except as I've added things, the fuselage didn't want to snap together like it had when I'd first opened the box. Here you can see the monstrous gap I'd potentially have to deal with.

 

Here's the view looking up.  This stuff is all mucking up the proverbial works. Or so I thought...

 

And a side view.  I actually sanded down those partial bulkheads that the ball turret hangs from.  Didn't change the gap at all. (and pay no heed to the subpar painting. I've realized that essentially only colors and shapes are visible. So that's what I went with)

And here's the "AHA!" moment.  It was nothing to do with all the parts added, but this little tab here sticking out by its lonesome. It's actually part of the roof/fuselage that HB molded.  There's a little sprue nub that is super easy to miss.  I won't admit how long I've studied this problem before tackling it, but suffice to say I'm about as sharp as wet leather at times...

 

And here's the seam now.  That piece of tape isn't actually holding anything, and it closes up nice and tight.

 

Still need to sort the ammo feed chutes.  I swear every place I've checked has been out of stock. Need those before I can button everything up, so in the interim I'll keep muddling with the gunners and ball turret. 

More soon.

-Peter

Sure glad I saw this before I joined the fuselage, that nub actually looked like it belonged there, but it saved me much grief.

[armor fiend]

On 8/16/2022 at 7:51 AM, easixpedro said:

Heh...I had my doubts as I started hacking up a $200+ kit!  But I'm having fun and learning some new tricks as I bumble along. I'm beginning to understand why you and Peter make such use of tech drawings to get things right. Problem with the B-24 is with 18K of them built, there's SO many variations. I was reading a book a few weeks ago that talked about Consolidated changing the fuel pumps mid-block and then changing them again. It got to the point that in theater Flight Engineers didn't know what was in their airplane till the manned up for a mission and learned on the go.  BTW, those are those little blobs Monogram included on their iconic 1/48th B-24 that go on the upper wings.  The radios are another example--depends on each aircraft. They could be on the flight deck behind the pilots or in the area above the bomb bay/behind the wing. 

 

As for your canopy--I say try it!  I managed to score a small box of resin and another of molding putty at Hobby Lobby during one of their 40% off sales.  Brand is alumilite.  I think you could mess around with the kit canopy and make a silicon mold pretty easily, w/o damaging the kit part.  Also easy enough of a shape to do a smash pull, w/o using a vacuum former.

 

break break

 

For everyone following along, I was scrolling through the interwebs for reference pics and found this pic in the Ann Arbor Public Library. (posted under fair use as an example). A B-24L from the same build block as the B-24 I'm building, taken at Willow Run after a test flight--she's super shiny!  It's a great shot as it shows the bombardier's aiming windows I'm building, plus the enclosed waist guns. Check out the enlarged Nav window, which supports the bulged field mods done by the 15th AF theory. You can barely make out the A-3 "High Hat" turret up top. I have my thoughts for how to make that when the time comes.  

 

Moving my son back to the dorms tomorrow, so hopefully will be back at the bench later in the week!

-Peter

 

Not to be one of those guys, but Ford's 5000th was a B-24J Block 10. It will be very similar in the nose to an early L, like Ford's 6000th.

According to http://www.b24bestweb.com/misslace-v2.htm, Miss Lace is Block 10 L from Willow Run. You can't see it on Miss Lace because of the tarp, but it has the characteristic Ford nose that you can see here on Boomerang, http://www.b24bestweb.com/boomerang-v2-4.htm, (which was built five hours earlier than Miss Lace). Notice how the angle of the panel in the front before the starlight dome comes down at an angle. When it gets to the window it kinda starts going straight down again.

I'm also building a Ford L (Block 1), so been doing a lot of research. I'll start posting my own thread soon.

Edited February 17, 2023 by armor fiend
more info

[armor fiend]

The Ford nose is much more visible on this page about Rupert the Roo II.

https://www.airplanes-online.com/b24-liberator-rupert-the-roo-II.htm

[easixpedro]

22 hours ago, armor fiend said:

Not to be one of those guys, 

Not at all! Welcome aboard and that’s how we all learn. The more I learn about B-24s, I can appreciate a certain 15th AF lib called “Malfunction sired by Ford” (and couple that with Hobby Boss, and well, it is a mess!)

 

Here’s another great view for those following along.

 

 

Marc’s post was actually perfect timing as I was just trying to sort the nose. Yesterday was a snow day from work as the plains got clobbered with snow. Here’s a side profile. I essentially got my clear bits on, but had to shoot some color to check everything. Thee macro lens and NMF are super unforgiving, which is exactly what I needed.

After drilling about a thousand rivets and polishing forever and a day, followed by a shot of Tamiya AS-12. Masking bulbous windows is not fun…

 

 

 

I’ll be honest. I really, really don’t like this and am not happy with my work, even knowing this was an in-progress shot.

 

Here’s the rub. Check and compare the next 2 pics.

 And a screen grab from the Henry Ford Museum, posted under fair use for illustrative purposes

 

The shape of the bomb aimer’s window is completely off, which throws off the shape of the nose. I copied the kits nose, which has an oval shape. Those Ford windows are more of a trapezoid. The last pic I posted is the first one I’ve seen that is taken from a forward angle with it visible. Stumbled across it at the Henry Ford Museum, which incidentally has a ton of B-24 pics as they rolled off the line.

 

So I’ll mull this over a bit to decide how I want to tackle it. Can’t be worse that removing an entirely built Prowler cockpit to move it a few mm right?! I figure the clear bits have to come off and I’ll remake a master… of course I’m out of resin, and molding supplies.

Also need to sort the fairing by the turret as Marc alluded to, cause that’s all sorts of wonky.

 

More to follow, and thanks for the comments everyone!

-Peter