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TorbenD

Aerotech Supermarine S5

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Hi Torben!

My guess is the 2 rods are to stiffen the structure. They seem to attach at the top of the box structure, centered on each side, just before the strong structural member shown with the red arrows. 

The drawing isn't too clear about the way the pivot of the control column (wow great part!) is attached, but it could well be that it is somehow connected to the rods, as you suggested, with a small

crossbar.

 

S8fBRvj.png

 

 

Alain

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I am with Alain on this one.

 

The rods seem to meet the top of the box structure, and provide the support for the knuckle articulation of the control column, and the said articulation, btw, seems to be ABOVE the box.

The structural crossbar Alain mentions would the rear spar, and should align with the rear floats supports. It would then be logical that the diagonal rods somehow connect to this spar, one of the most critical load-bearing structural elements.

They would then be inside the box, the said box being attached one way or another to them, and acting as a kind of internal keel.

 

You are being limited by the scale factor there, Torben. No way you can accurately represent thin metal sheet with plasticard, nor can you be 100% sure that the diameter of your rods is exactly 1/32 of the original 1:1 one.

 

Hubert

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Ahhh thank you Alain and Hubert - I think I now understand(?)...  :rolleyes:

 

The structure highlighted by Alain's red arrows is a pretty substantial U-shaped load baring block/brace that thins as it travels up the sidewalls pretty much faring in at the top. The top of this U-Shaped structure just lies fractionally above the box structure in the keel as it passes over the centre. As for the rod braces resting on the central box structure in the keel, that too makes sense if their job is to not only add stability but also provide the structure for the main pivot knuckle joint of the control column (which is just above or level with the top of the box, about the only thing I'd actually worked out for myself Hubert!  :whistle:  )

 

Thanks again for your help in interpretation of the plans. My intention was always to do the best I can do without going too insane given the lack of a definitive image; making it believable and make sense from an engineering/design point-of-view and you have both helped enormously.

 

Torben

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Hi Torben, Interesting debate, looking through my stuff (got more than I remembered.....!) I found an original paper copy of the S5 3 view in a book of collected drawings called 'Aircraft Archive - famous racing and aerobatic planes', so took a slightly sharper picture of the sections you show above to try and help the debate

IMG_4894.jpg

 

About the holes in my previous photo (!), it appears that the outer holes are surrounded by fixings indicating they are inspection hatches, the inner one has a 'duct' appearing out of it, which indicates it is permanently open - what puzzles me is the direction if the slash cut on the duct - it faces forward, indicating its an intake not an exhaust? I don't understand this as it would be very vulnerable to ingesting sea water....?  Theories welcome!!

 

Malc.

 

Hgggnnn, photo link didn't work, let's try again - if you click the thumbnail it takes you to a full res pic.

Edited by malc

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Thanks Malc - that helps an awful lot on the clarity front :yahoo:  I think that confirms that Alain and Hubert are on the money - it also is clearer that the U shaped brace is angled slightly away from the perpendicular, I just have to try and model it now!

 

Interesting that that central hole is a duct - good spot -  I too bet it got exposed to a chunk of seawater, although the later versions of S5s had more and more air vents added as well as the larger cooling ducts on the side as the Napier got plenty hot.

 

Thanks again,

Torben

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Just a small update tonight although there's been a bit of progress in sorting out the main u-brace there's not much to see so I'll post some images when it's more fully resolved.

 

A couple of things that did get (nearly) sorted were the seat bracing and the throttle quadrant:

 

Once trimmed to the correct 5 button width  :doh: the seat fitted fine and I've added a simple cross bar frame - everything's just dry fitted for now.

 

DSC02726-X2.jpg

 

DSC02727-X2.jpg

 

DSC02728-X2.jpg

 

I still haven't been able to find any images of the S5's (or S6s) throttle quadrant so after searching for something that would be period and very simple/stripped back, it's a handmade racing machine after all, I decided to use the image a 1920's biplane replica as a starting point and adjust from there (Shush! Don't tell Hubert, i think it may have been from a Spad?) Either way my first attempt was made out of too thin a gauge of brass sheet so when a bit wibbly-wobbly on me. 

 

DSC02725-X2.jpg

 

I compared with my reference I added a ball top to the throttle lever and extensions under to attach the connection rods. It all came out a bit crude (and backwards :innocent:!!!)  so I made a second starting from thicker gauge brass sheet, keeping the ball top but loosing the extensions.

 

First up I cut the inner shape using drills and jewellers files.

 

DSC02710-X2.jpg

 

I then carefully trimmed and filed back to get the outer frame cut out. I left just enough attached to the bottom to make it easier to handle as I added more detail later.

 

DSC02711-X2.jpg

 

Next came the levers (throttle and engine mix) trimmed out of brass sheet along with the base framework.

 

DSC02716-X2.jpg

 

Then, finally (well not quite) the very large securing screw heads, which scale-wise are actually 0.8mm aluminium discs punched from an old food container. The ball top is from the micro balls one finds when you open up a water filter. 

 

DSC02720-X2.jpg

 

DSC02722-X2.jpg

 

DSC02719-X2.jpg

 

I just need to add a rear frame, the connecting rods and a few other final details including the screw ends (probably from archer rivets) but much happier with my second attempt. Gut feel says it may have come out a bit larger than the real one may have been but as it's such a sparse cockpit I hope it will be ok when I place it in situ.

 

Thanks for looking and if anyone can find an image of the actual thing then your window for sharing it is rapidly closing!!!!  :frantic:

 

Torben

Edited by TorbenD

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Brilliant!  Just the thought of working on something so small would give me a ton of pause.

 

I can just imagine all of that brass wanting to bend on me.

 

Well done!

 

Gaz

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Brilliant!  Just the thought of working on something so small would give me a ton of pause.

 

I can just imagine all of that brass wanting to bend on me.

 

Well done!

 

Gaz

 

Thanks Gaz - I felt the same to start with - in the end, a slug of Danish Schnapps followed by a quick leap of blind faith all that was needed. That and a couple or more attempts! After all it's only waste brass and my time if it hadn't work out to my satisfaction. With all the great modellers here at LSP I've been inspired to give more new things a go and am loving scratching that scratch building itch.

 

Torben

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Guest Peterpools

Torben

Right with Gaz, awesome detail work.

Keep 'em comin

Peter

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(Shhhh ... don't tell Torben but I like his throttle quadrant. All the more so as I defy anyone to see enough of it when the fuselage is closed to question its authenticity ;) )

 

Well done Torben !

 

Hubert

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Amazing work Torben! Especially considering how much larger we get to see the parts you made. I wonder if you would actually start over if a photo of the real thing turned up? I don't think I would...

 

Alain

 

Hmmm - thx ever-so for your kind comments Alain, hopefully I'll never have to find out!  :frantic:

 

 

Excellent!

Thanks for the detailed report.

:popcorn:

 

Juraj

 

Cheers Juraj

 

 

(Shhhh ... don't tell Torben but I like his throttle quadrant. All the more so as I defy anyone to see enough of it when the fuselage is closed to question its authenticity ;) )

 

Well done Torben !

 

Hubert

 

Thanks Hubert. Actually I plan to have the hood completely folded forward so the quadrant along with the rest of the cockpit will be horribly exposed!  :innocent:

 

Here it once attached to the fine control rods; just dry fitted in position

 

DSC02731-X2.jpg

 

DSC02734-X2.jpg

 

The rest of the cockpit is slowly emerging from the bits of brass and sheet plastic. Again, apart from the bulkhead and main spine and newly made U-shaped brace (I need to add the sidewall ends to the top section) this is all dry fitted for now so I can gain access and adjust as well make painting easier. The ugly looking support for the top of the bulkhead is hidden by the instrument panel. Talking of which... where the heck did I leave that? 

 

DSC02736-X2.jpg

 

DSC02737-X2.jpg

 

I've off-set the pedals slightly as I plan to have a bit of a turn on the rudder. I think the only major part yet to scratch is the knuckle joint and cross bar for the control column pivot point, set fairly low between the two angled support rods - I still haven't quite worked out how to approach that. :shrug:

 

It's taken a bit of time and even more carving out to make sure it all fits nicely once the top half is finally secured. I may have to trim and or lower the control bar a tad but otherwise starting to look pretty promising!

 

DSC02745-X2.jpg

 

DSC02743-X2.jpg

 

DSC02742-X2.jpg

 

I'm thinking of adding a simple block for what a believe is a large oil reservoir behind the seat. Aside for finishing the instrument panel (if I can find it) and adding a few control cables I'm just starting to see some light at the end of this particular tunnel. 

 

As ever, thanks for looking. Any observations, thoughts, critiques etc. always welcome as I'm hopefully not too far away from adding some paint to the pit.

 

Torben

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