Tamiya F-15C Kicked Up A Notch- Dec 1/17: DONE!

[chuck540z3]

Chuck,

 

Fantastic paint work, love your style man! Also, not to throw more product at you, but you if like X-22 clear, give Alclad Aqua Gloss (ALC 600) a go sometime. It is a true acrylic and produces a incredibly clear and tough gloss coat. Kind of like the best of both worlds with Future and Tamiya X-22 all in one product, super stuff over Alclad metallics too. If you would want a bit more drytime control with either Tamiya or Gunze panits, Mr. Color Leveling thinner 400 with a few drops of the same brand retarder. Responds like the old two-part mix automotive lacquers giving excellent control over application and dry times.

 

Kirk

 

 

Aqua Gloss is basically the same as Future. 

 

 

Are you sure? 

 

Joel

 

Before the use of clear gloss finishes takes on a life of its own in this thread, here's a cut/paste portion of my P-38L build where I tried 4 different gloss clearcoats.  Apologies to Starfighter Jock for my comments about ALC 600.  Maybe if I thinned it with something like Mr. Color leveling thinner and a drying retarder I would have had better results.  I was following the label on the bottle which specifically says not to thin it.  I also have Alclad ALC 310 which is a true lacquer, but since I like to spray the "wet look", I was afraid of crazing the paint.  Also, my analysis was very specific to Alclad metallic finishes, so some of my observations do not apply to my enamel paint job of this Eagle.

 

 

___________________

 

Knowing that any clear finish will knock down the shine, I experimented with 6 different clear coats, 4 of which I show below, including a new one, Tamiya X-22 acrylic as recommended by Kevin.  Future was an obvious choice, since I use it regularly on  most of my models as a decal prep coat and I gave the Alclad acrylic ALC 600 Aqua Gloss Clear another try, just in case my past experiences with it were not typical.  Finally, I tried Model Master Sealer for Metalizer, since it is made specifically for the same problem as the Alclad Chrome, since Metalizer finishes also tend to rub off.

 

 

 

 

I applied these clear coats to the F-4 intakes I painted earlier with Alclad Chrome, leaving a middle seam without clear a coat so that you can see the contrast in color and shine before and after.  I tried a multitude of angles and light to try and show the differences, but closeups of high shine finishes do not photograph very well, so you'll just have to take my word for it.  In all cases the Chrome shine and color were knocked down and became more silver, likely due to the clear coat not allowing the pigment to reflect light as it did before. Note how the middle portion without clear coat has lines from where the masking tape lifted the paint.

 

There was a clear winner.  Kevin's X-22! 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's why and order of preference.

 

X-22  

 

Thinned properly with Tamiya lacquer thinner (~50/50), it sprays beautifully, sticks to vertical surfaces without dripping (if you're careful) and is rock hard in 15 minutes.  Wow!  I am now a big fan and I may never use Future again for decal prep.

 

Future 

 

If it wasn't for the new X-22, I would have picked my old favorite.  I know how it works, what to watch out for and it gave a smooth finish as good as the X-22.  It's also a bit soft and takes 3-4 times as long to dry.

 

MM Sealer for Metalizer

 

This clear lacquer acts and behaves much like Alclad ALC 310.  Unfortunately, it "drifts" quite a bit and creates mini balls of dust, creating a rougher finish.  I was also concerned with getting the surface of the Chrome really wet, fearing the lacquer would craze the finish.  This is why Alclad only recommends their ALC600 as a clear coat on their High Shine finishes.

 

Alcad ALC 600

 

I hate this stuff.  It takes twice as long as Future to dry, drips on vertical surfaces easily, can't be thinned and it dried to a slightly cloudy finish.  I just tossed it in the garbage, just in case I ever dream of using it again.

 

 

 

 

Now two quick shots of the model after the application of X-22. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously I prefer the Chrome color and shine as it used to be, but I can actually pick this thing up with my hands now without fear of leaving marks and decal solutions won't eat the Chrome paint.

 

 

In closing, a BIG thank you to Kevin and his X-22 tip.  That's what I really enjoy about LSP.  I learn as much as I try to teach once in awhile.

 

_________________

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[KitmodellerNZ]

X-22 thinned with Tamiya Lacq thinner turns out a little rough, more of a semi gloss for me. Thinning it with Mr Levelling thinner and then misting on a coat of neat Mr Levelling thinner really turns on the gloss though. 

[chuck540z3]

X-22 thinned with Tamiya Lacq thinner turns out a little rough, more of a semi gloss for me. Thinning it with Mr Levelling thinner and then misting on a coat of neat Mr Levelling thinner really turns on the gloss though. 

 

Not for me.  Here's a Few pics of the results I've shown of my P-38L many times before.  Maybe you didn't add enough thinner?

 

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by chuck540z3

[kike_gt]

Before applying the gloss finish, do you use sand paper on the paint job? I have problems when painting cause I often get a "sandy" paint surface, I use a 2000 grit sand paper and everything's good, but since you haven't mentioned it I have to ask? I also spray at 15 psi and thinn the paint with half of thinner

[Guest Peterpools]

Chuck

How sweet she is. Beautiful work and just reinforces how I go about clear gloss these day.

Much appreciated

Peter

[chuck540z3]

Before applying the gloss finish, do you use sand paper on the paint job? I have problems when painting cause I often get a "sandy" paint surface, I use a 2000 grit sand paper and everything's good, but since you haven't mentioned it I have to ask? I also spray at 15 psi and thinn the paint with half of thinner

 

I use "Mr. Laplos" finishing cloths, which are super fine and will conform around variable relief surfaces without removing all the paint on the edges.

 

 

After using these cloths, make sure the surface is completely dust free with compressed air.  I suspect your "dusty" feel is due to the gloss finish drying before it hits the plastic.  Use more thinner, get closer and always make the surface completely wet before moving on to the next area to be sprayed.

 

 

Chuck

How sweet she is. Beautiful work and just reinforces how I go about clear gloss these day.

Much appreciated

Peter

 

 

Thanks Bud, including your kind earlier comments above!

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[kike_gt]

 

I suspect your "dusty" feel is due to the gloss finish drying before it hits the plastic

 Thant happens with paint! but I think it must be the same reason or close to that!

[Joel_W]

   Chuck,

  Thanks so much for reposting your test and test results. Even an old war horse like me can see the differences. 

Joel

[chuck540z3]

 Thant happens with paint! but I think it must be the same reason or close to that!

 

To tell you the truth, I was having similar issues with my enamel sputtering large droplets of paint over this model, which I've never had before.  I would spray for maybe 3-4 minutes and then suddenly the paint would sputter out of the airbrush.  Having used acrylic paints before, this is a classic sign of the tip drying.  Thinking about things (after the air was a little blue with my thoughts on the matter), I realized that I normally spray my models in the winter and this is obviously summer.  My spray booth is in my garage, where it's usually cool, but right now it's hot with up to 33 C heat.  When it's cool, the paint doesn't have a chance to dry on the airbrush tip, so I added some Tamiya lacquer thinner to the paint mix due to the extra heat (and resultant drying) and all is now well.

 

For reference, if you use MM enamels, I use 2 parts paint and 1 part Testors enamel thinner.  When it's hot, like right now, I add 1 more part of Tamiya lacquer thinner  as a "retarder", just like you would use if the paint was an acrylic.  The extra drying time should also reduce any of your "dusty" results, where the paint dries before it hits the surface of the plastic.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[kike_gt]

 

Thanks for the advise Chuck! I will try!

[richdlc]

chuck - it appears to me that you spend at least as much time explaining techniques as you do updating your build threads.  When I want to go back and check out a tip, I have to go through your threads to find it.

 

Is there any chance of you putting all of your techniques into one thread, like Peter did for his metal skinning tutorials?

 

 

[damouav]

Chuck,

 

I have just been reading your build log, and more to the point your comments on clear coats. Thank you!

I have the exact same experience with Alclag Aqua Gloss, the stuff is useless. I have tried MRP gloss varnish with good results, but will try the X-22.

 

The information you and others provide has helped to expand my modeling skills in a major way.

 

Again, thank you.

 

Damian

[Starfighter Jock]

Are you sure? 

 

Joel

Joel, the Aqua Gloss is a true acrylic, I use Future to but I do not believe it is a true acrylic. The stuff is made to put on floors, it does contain some shine enhancement ingredients along with cleaners. I saw Chucks post on using Aqua Gloss, but seriously I have not had the issues Chuck has had with it. It does lay down with a cloudy finish, but that helps me judge the coverage. It also requires longer dry times as it is a true acrylic without crap added to it to speed drying. When dry my experience has been a perfectly clear top coat that wears like iron and not effected when enamels, oils or lacquers are applied over it. It is however, very responsive to humidity conditions so possibly what caused Chuck to have problems with it, just a guess.

 

Kirk

Edited July 13, 2017 by Starfighter Jock

[chuck540z3]

chuck - it appears to me that you spend at least as much time explaining techniques as you do updating your build threads.  When I want to go back and check out a tip, I have to go through your threads to find it.

 

Is there any chance of you putting all of your techniques into one thread, like Peter did for his metal skinning tutorials?

 

 

Hi!  In a word, no, mostly because I just don't have time.  I struggle as it is to do some modeling and these WIP threads, so digging through the archives of my builds to find stuff is just not something I'm interested in doing.  Besides, I change my mind all the time!  My salt weathering techniques have morphed over the years and even though I have a few tutorials out there on using Future, I don't use it anymore- at least not as a clear coat for decals. 

 

 

Joel, the Aqua Gloss is a true acrylic, I use Future to but I do not believe it is a true acrylic. The stuff is made to put on floors, it does contain some shine enhancement ingredients along with cleaners. I saw Chucks post on using Aqua Gloss, but seriously I have not had the issues Chuck has had with it. It does lay down with a cloudy finish, but that helps me judge the coverage. It also requires longer dry times as it is a true acrylic without crap added to it to speed drying. When dry my experience has been a perfectly clear top coat that wears like iron and not effected when enamels, oils or lacquers are applied over it. It is however, very responsive to humidity conditions so possibly what caused Chuck to have problems with it, just a guess.

 

Kirk

 

 

Sorry to dump on the ALC 600 right after you recommended using it, but my experience using the stuff was not good.  As you mentioned, there are many factors like thinning and humidity that could have improved the results.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

 

[Starfighter Jock]

Chuck,

 

No worries with dumping on products, good to know that you had issues with it as elements such as humidity and altitude makes a big difference on how paint products respond. Back in my High School days, (more years ago than I care to remember) I use to paint a lot of cars. Using the exact same equipment, paint products and air pressures, but on different days I would get different finish results. One day it might be 70 degrees Fahrenheit with 50% outside air humidity and I would get a perfect finish, few days later it was 85 degrees and 90% air humidity and I would get crap, sags, runs and orange peel finish. As I now live in northern Michigan, I run a de-humidifier in my workshop a couple of days before doing any painting in the summer months and exactly the opposite in the winter months, I add humidity to the workshop. Makes a big difference in how the products respond.

 

Kirk

Edited July 13, 2017 by Starfighter Jock