Dana Bell Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Hi guys, I'm working away on my talk for the Nats, surrounded by docs on smooth finish, waxing, and boundary layers. Given the art of WWII physics, the AAF and the US Navy were concerned with reduction of friction drag and excess turbulence. Smoothed (sanded) finishes were highly regarded for that reason, as were semi-gloss paints. These surfaces, of course, had higher reflectances and made the aircraft more visible, which seemed to counter the whole purpose of camouflage. In 4-tone camouflage, the Navy used semi-gloss paint on the wings and stabs, except on the leading edges - which were flat to reduce reflections on those curved surfaces. The Glossy Sea Blue scheme was an admission that speed had become more important than camouflage. On the few occassions when I can still put a model together, I like to apply thin coats of lacquer-thinned enamel, then buff them with nylon stockings. (Back in the early '70s, before I was married, I had to show my neigbor my modeling set up to prove I wasn't hitting on his wife!) The end result seems more like a scale reflectance, smoothed paint on a metal skin. Cheers, Dana LSP_Matt, D.B. Andrus, BiggTim and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozart Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It has been well documented that the Nachtjagd's top scoring pilot, Heinz Wolfgang Schnaufer had his aircraft polished to achieve as much speed as possible, clearly evident here: Max MikeC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It's also well-documented that for nightfighters in general, a matt aircraft showed up in searchlights, moonlight, etc; whereas a glossy one was not so evident. Hence shiny P-61s et al, and just one reason for the RAF abandoning the sooty ultra-matt "Special Night". LSP_Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Finish also differs by country. While the RAF may have had matte finish, Luftwaffe paints were semi-gloss from the factory. And, things change when out in the elements, after a few years matte finishes get smoother/shinier, and semi-gloss get flatter. Quality of the paint and where it is applied will also have an impact on shine or lack thereof. So, it's hard to say "A Subject X should be semi-gloss or dead flat", when in reality a Subject X will be somewhere in between based on a multitude of factors. MikeC and LSP_Matt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigern007 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It's a matter of personal choice and perception, but a completely dead flat finish looks too harsh on a model to me. Extremes one way or the other should be avoided This just about " sez" it all...........cheers ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssculptor Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 Essentially, what it comes down to is it is just a matter of personal choice - what the individual modeler likes. As we see, arguments and examples on both sides and extremes of the issue are evident in real life. So we can do what we like and not worry about the accuracy that much. If A did not do it the way we like then B did. Or after a long time in the elements it happened anyway. This also applies to the intensity of the colors, also. Some years ago I had long discussion with the late Dave Thompson (UMI Models). Dave spent a year in Vietnam as an infantry machine gunner and he said that one could almost tell how long the trucks had been in 'nam by how faded the colors were. The hot sun and the monsoons really beat up the paint on things. Yes, there will be some big mouth nincompoop who will protest loud and long that your model's finish or color is wrong. No problem, as you walk by him just spill your soda pop all over his pants, preferably on the front. If you really are annoyed by the jerk spill hot coffee. Do not forget to say, "Oops. I beg your pardon. I am so clumsy." "Butter would not melt in my mouth" Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaVenom Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It is a matter of personal choice of course but from what I've seen the overwhelming majority of planes had a dead flat finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hworth18 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Ahhhhh.. One of my favorite debates!! Lol.... I think that most A/C Allied and Axis alike were very well taken care of, waxed, polished and cleaned until the later stages of the war when there really just wasn't time or the need to. Hence the poor condition of painschemes after the war when A/C sat out in the weather and oxidized. I couldn't find the one pic that shows a clear reflection of the pilots face in the tailplane as he posed for a pic, but here are two others that show there was a visible sheen on the paint. I also think that scale really doesn't have anything to do with finish as it does with paint colors. Galland's 109 clearly has a semi-gloss sheen to it as does the second pic where the officer's elbow on the tailplane is somewhat reflected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Yes, as mentioned above, Luftwaffe paints were semi-gloss from the factory (for all aircraft, not just for Aces) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUROK Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 However, it just occurred to me, if I wax my car more often will i get more miles per gallon? LOL. Well, yes, if you drive 200 mph all the time! LSP_Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssculptor Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 LOL. Well, yes, if you drive 200 mph all the time! Well; I try but the local traffic conditions always slow me down. Stephen LSP_Matt and KUROK 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssculptor Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Ahhhhh.. One of my favorite debates!! Lol.... I think that most A/C Allied and Axis alike were very well taken care of, waxed, polished and cleaned until the later stages of the war when there really just wasn't time or the need to. Hence the poor condition of painschemes after the war when A/C sat out in the weather and oxidized. I couldn't find the one pic that shows a clear reflection of the pilots face in the tailplane as he posed for a pic, but here are two others that show there was a visible sheen on the paint. I also think that scale really doesn't have anything to do with finish as it does with paint colors. Galland's 109 clearly has a semi-gloss sheen to it as does the second pic where the officer's elbow on the tailplane is somewhat reflected. This bottom photo, are you sure it is not an advertisement for the brand of cigarettes the pilot in the middle is holding in his hand? The layout and poses certainly look like a full page ad one would find in Look or Life magazine back in the 1940's. "Ya, ich bin schmoking Hockundspitz zigaretten zince ve invaded Poland." Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Lapin Mal Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 This bottom photo, are you sure it is not an advertisement for the brand of cigarettes the pilot in the middle is holding in his hand? The layout and poses certainly look like a full page ad one would find in Look or Life magazine back in the 1940's. "Ya, ich bin schmoking Hockundspitz zigaretten zince ve invaded Poland." Stephen Actually, I think you'll find the guy on the left is looking at the guy on the right and wondering if he should tell him his trouser zip is down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Matt Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Actually, I think you'll find the guy on the left is looking at the guy on the right and wondering if he should tell him his trouser zip is down... Either that or he's having a bit of a Spinal Tap cucumber moment...urgh...so wrong. Le Lapin Mal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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