what areas to putty on P51 wings?

[Radub]

Here is the story of the plane. http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/?survivors/serial/44-74409 In as far as I can see there, the plane was flyable and eventually it was donated to the RAF Museum without any major overhaul. No "restoration". When the plane flew, it flew with that wing. 

Please have a look at other Mustangs here: 

http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/don_busack/p-51d/

http://wingsovereurope.com/p-51_mustang_walkaround_old_crow.html

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/photo/viewcat_cid_548.html

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/photo/viewcat_cid_408.html

The lines, fasteners and rivets are visible in the same places. As I said, do not take my word for it. Have a look for yourselves. 

Radu 

[Guest Peterpools]

Jennings

Thank you for the information. Would Floquil Old Silver be too 'silvery' or would an enamel aluminum, rubbed out and glossed be the way to go?

Thanks again

Peter

[Juggernut]

From what I remember Charles Neeley saying on the P-51 SIG is that the wing was puttied to 40% chord and the remainder was primed, sanded, primed sanded and then top coated effectively filling all the rivets.  Only the leading edge to 40% chord was actually filled using any kind of filling material.

[Radub]

Charles Neely says whatever he wants. I am telling what I can see with my own eyes. You can still see panel lines on the Mustang wing. You can see them in wartime photos. You can see them in Michael O'Leary's book. You can see them on museum exhibits. You can see them on flyable Mustangs.

 

I consider myself fortunate to have seen the Mustang in the air mnay times. I visited Duxford many times both for air shows and for the museum, possibly a dozen times (I have relatives in a nearby town), and they often fly their Mustangs. I was in Duxford yesterday (no Mustang was flying) but I looked at a flyable Mustang in the hangar and it had visible panel lines and the rivet lines could clearly be discerned. Yes, I agree, these rivets are not "holes" in the wings, but they are distinctly visible as round-shaped areas. They are highlighted by the deformation of the metal along the lines. Putty did not remove them, it only subdued them. Honestly, it makes me wonder whether those who claim the wing was like the finish of a Formula 1 car ever get close to a Mustang.

 

Here is my advice about the Tamiya wing: forget what people on the internet tell you (me included). Forget what people on the internet (me included) tell you about putty, sanding, lacquer. Approach this as a beginner. Seek photos/books and look at them with a fresh but open mind. Make up your own mind. They say "there is no man more blind than he he does not want to see". When people on the internet (me included) tell you what to look for, THAT is what you see. Forget dogma. See for yourself. Make up your own mind.

 

I, personally, DO NOT think that the Tamiya wing needs to be mutilated. Other kits may be a different story, but the Tamiya wing is fine as is.

 

Radu

Edited September 23, 2013 by Radub

[dodgem37]

Hear, hear.

 

Sincerely,

Mark

[Darren Howie]

I think Radu is onto something.

Build a model as you want and respect the fact that when viewing others they have made the same choice.

And hopefully show you that respect as well.

Great work from Jennings to for those that choose that route.

Having seen plenty of Mustangs they are as all different as each other.

Paul Allens in Seattle i think has a correctly restored wing very clean indeed.

Yet Museum of Flight has a rivetted wing completely different.

Make a choice abpnd respect others may make a different one.

The whole flaps down Corsair debate at HS was laughable with some people so full of there own opinion and ramming it down everyone elses throat as only they could be right.

[Radub]

Yeah, that whole Corsair flap thing on HS was ridiculous. It can be summed up in one sentence: "immovable views about movable objects". ;-)

http://www.buzzfeed.com/samir/things-that-will-drive-your-ocd-self-insane

Radu

[JRutman]

While I will always go along with what Radub is saying about building a model the way you want to see it yourself,I have to agree with Jennings on this one.

  The main point here being the difference between the wartime Mustangs(pretty much brand new) and the Mustangs that we see today which are 70 years after the fact.  I think THAT is the main decision builders must go with. Do you go with reality and the blatently obvious factory specs or do you accent the heck out of all of those lovely panel lines and rivits? Modelers choice!  The brilliant thing about the new Tamiya kit is that the engraving is so sweet and subtle that the builder can go either way with a minimum of effort.

Just my two pence,

J

[Radub]

The detail on the Mustang wing is so delicate that if you hold the parts at arm's length it is almost invisible. And if you coat it with a coat of gloss paint, it will almost disappear.  

When I will build mine, I will leave all that detail as is. Others can do as they please, it would not bother me in the least.

Radu

[BradG]

Ever since I first read about this debate I've kept my eyes open for wartime pictures which show the wing as I've read a lot of people waffle on without providing much in the way of evidence. Thus, it's hard to say who is right/wrong or perhaps the necessities of war meant that both camps can be right, with some wings nicely smoothed and others rough as guts. Yeh I know people have looked through wartime documents, but that doesn't mean they were adhered to all the time (or maybe none of the time). Here is about the best pic I've every gotten and note the fuselage rivets compared to the lack of them on the wing.

 

[Derek B]

Nice pic Brad

 

Derek

[Guest Colin M]

The detail on the Mustang wing is so delicate that if you hold the parts at arm's length it is almost invisible. And if you coat it with a coat of gloss paint, it will almost disappear.  

When I will build mine, I will leave all that detail as is. Others can do as they please, it would not bother me in the least.

Radu

 

I have the 1/32 Tamiya P-51 too and will do same, not knocking anyone's choices here but if I were to strive for such perfection I'd get nothing built

[jozef]

Hi all.

 

Great picture. Will use it for sure. 

I am just working on Passion Wagon and will follow the route Radu described above. Well almost. I will send some parts of the wing since I screwwed something and had to fil a gap on wing/fuselage join. Yes, it is also possible, that is simply me  

 

Best to all

 

 

Jozef 

[Out2gtcha]

Hi all.

 

Great picture. Will use it for sure. 

I am just working on Passion Wagon and will follow the route Radu described above. Well almost. I will send some parts of the wing since I screwwed something and had to fil a gap on wing/fuselage join. Yes, it is also possible, that is simply me

 

Best to all

 

 

Jozef 

 

 

What no WIP for PW my friend????   

[Radub]

Here is about the best pic I've every gotten and note the fuselage rivets compared to the lack of them on the wing.

 

 

Yes, the wing was different from the fuselage. Yes, the wing was puttied. No argument there. All I said was that when the light hits the puttied rivets in certain ways, you can still see where the rivets are (surrounded by putty). Let me put it this way: did you ever use putty to fill a hole in the wall and then painted over it? When you look at it, it is smooth and perfectly matching the surrounding wall. But when you look at it from an angle in such a way that the light catches the edges of it, you can still see the place where the whole was. Now imagine lines and lines of this stuff. And now imagine that the areas ahead and behind these rows of "puttied rivets" feature some kind of "oil canning". Did you ever see a wall where a trench was chiselled to put in a cable and then it was plastered over and smoothed? Yet you can still see the puttied line as a slight raise or slight change of angle. If you look at wartime photos you can see this effect in some photos but not in others. It depends on how the light catches this detail and causes reflections and shadows. It is a subtle effect, but it is there. A generous coat of gloss lacquer over the Tamiya Mustang wing should recreate this effect.

 

Radu

Edited September 25, 2013 by Radub