brahman104 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Aha! It all becomes clear now! Thank you kindly for taking the time to explain the process Geoff. I look forward to giving it a go at some stage. Can't wait to see more progress on your epic venture. Cheers, Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 All, I put this General Discussion as well with a full explanation. Maybe Ill get more responses here. This happened by accident. I didnt plan on this happening. The part had a couple of wonky intersections making it no good. Which rivet detail do you think looks more true to scale? The top part is the original...the bottom resultant... The original part made with jewelers beading tool... This is the resultant form left behind on the sheet aluminum used as a backing sheet... Had no idea this was going to happen. The surface is perfectly smooth with no indentations at the rivet points. What say you? I know I should be put away. BiggTim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 The jump from 1/32 or 1/24th to 1/18 is huge. I failed to take this into account. Using a standard riveting tool didnt work. It wasnt the fault of the tool. As such, for smaller scales, it works fine; but not in 1/18nth scale. There is also a degree of uncertainty where rivet lines intersect with double striking being a big problem. Anything out of square or an imperfect intersect sticks out like a turnip in a bowl of peas. Making small penetrations in the surface just doesnt work. You need to see the rivet detail. The prospect of having to sit and apply each rivet singularly wasnt a thought I wanted to entertain. Unfortunately, there was no way around it. Geoff - I dropped in last night to learn from the master on how to approach the bigger scales - with riveting being one of those challenges as I also think a rivet wheel won't look right in this scale.. your notes set me thinking - as I haven't finalised the PE for my Spit, I though I might etch my own rivet templates. I got the section on rivet dimensions and spacing from the Monforton book and generated a set of 'Fine', 'Medium', and 'Coarse' pitches that are most commonly used. I also added the most regular spacings (10, 12, 14 & 19) and added the lateral ones too... ..if you have the spacings used most commonly on the P51, I can make room on the fret for a set - I made a 7cm one and a 15cm one of each..?? I think it will help mark them out - even if it does mean they still need to be individually added (they say there are 48,000 on a Spitfire...) let me know.. Peter BiggTim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) Handy dandy little tool there.....Harv Edited March 26, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggTim Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 That is so cool looking! I'm glad my 1/16 Fokker is wood, so I don't have to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) Geoff - I dropped in last night to learn from the master on how to approach the bigger scales - with riveting being one of those challenges as I also think a rivet wheel won't look right in this scale.. your notes set me thinking - as I haven't finalised the PE for my Spit, I though I might etch my own rivet templates. I got the section on rivet dimensions and spacing from the Monforton book and generated a set of 'Fine', 'Medium', and 'Coarse' pitches that are most commonly used. I also added the most regular spacings (10, 12, 14 & 19) and added the lateral ones too... ..if you have the spacings used most commonly on the P51, I can make room on the fret for a set - I made a 7cm one and a 15cm one of each..?? I think it will help mark them out - even if it does mean they still need to be individually added (they say there are 48,000 on a Spitfire...) let me know.. Peter Peter, Only 48,000 ? Anyway, the "Master" as you so generously stated, is getting his butt kicked to put it litely. The rivet pattern isn't a problem. Straight lines of rivets aren't a problem. The intersections are killing me. I've tried diffent approaches which, in theory, should work. The failure mode is my inability to hold a machine tolerance by hand along with my unwillingness to accept even the slight mismatch. I think you'll see what I mean once you have a go at it. Mismatched rivet lines are woefully obvious in this scale as are other deficiencies. Your tool looks like it works eliminate the problem,or at a minimum, greatly aid in eradicating it. Rivet spacing is probably much the same between the Spit and Mustang. The most common on the Mustang being (.0625) in. scale dimension or (1.6) mm nominal. I'm can't tell from the photo, but I'd be willing to bet those dimensions are there. Your tool is a great idea. It might be a nice addition to your product line as well in any scale. This said, I would suggest the following additions... 1. Alignment marks on the edge of the template which coincide with the centers of the diameters in both X and Y. 2. Provide offset rivets or staggard rivet lines. I'm thinking that while you could use the template as it is to make staggered lines, the template itself might hide the rivet line your trying to put a staggered line next to which, might make alignment difficult. Those are the only two things that jump to mind at the moment, other than, you're on the right path. I don't want to clog up this response by adding other thoughts, but if you care to develop a dialogue which addresses applying rivets (I've completely changed my approach) I'm all for it... Best Geoff Edited March 26, 2016 by Ironwing Hubert Boillot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Hi Geoff - see that was exactly what I was after - the application of real thought rather than idle musings I can do one at 1.6mm no problem - it will be like this one.. ..any other things to add / consider? sorry, I am cluttering up your thread - may just bail out to IM.. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainer Hoffmann Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I don't want to hijack this thread, but this discussion is exactly what I've been looking for. woukd it be possible to have this discussion in a separate thread? Geoff started one already in the tips & techniques section. Cheers Rainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 Hi Rainer... Would be happy to begin a dialogue in a separate thread. Any suggestions..hints and tips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) Peter That looks really good and exactly what I was thinking. Rainer would like to join in. Carry this over to hints n tips? Edited March 26, 2016 by Ironwing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainer Hoffmann Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Peter Carry this over to hints n tips? Yes, please! Cheers Rainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 I'll start a thread in hints n tips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) Hi Geoff - see that was exactly what I was after - the application of real thought rather than idle musings I can do one at 1.6mm no problem - it will be like this one....any other things to add / consider?sorry, I am cluttering up your thread - may just bail out to IM..Peter I think you'll have to control the different rivet diameters pretty tightly so they accept the tool tip but not allow it to wiggle around too much. Excess diameter slop might allow the tool too much leeway resulting in improper centering.I can see a set which supplies templates and matching tools for use in any scale. Well, probably not 72nd. It's just to small.one forty-eigth might be the limit. Surely it would work for 32nd and bigger.Thoughts?G Edited March 26, 2016 by LSP_Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lufty Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 As a humble observer from the sidelines, I have to say WOW! You Sir are a truely gifted modeller, ...Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) On this the screws slots would all align as it is used as a visual check to show they are locked and follow the fitting of the lock plates to the airframe. Quick release access panels would be at about 45 degrees, are all fitted that way to the aircraft. The cross head screws would tend to be simply screwed into anchor nuts so wouldn't follow any pattern, but the quick release Dzus fasteners on the cowls would be. The lines either side are a visual aid to ensure they are locked, we often added them with a permanent marker pen. I hope you do not mind me mentioning it and that helps a bit, bar that, stunning work, rather jealous. see Edited May 19, 2016 by TonyT Derek B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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