Rainer Hoffmann Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 Geoff, this looks terrific. You and Peter are the metal masters. Truly inspiring. Just one question: Wouldn't it be easier to start with the leading edge panels and then work rearward from there? Cheers Rainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRutman Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 Between you and Peter I am reminded why I no longer build airplanes. NICE !! J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 wow Geoff - that looks incredible using contact adhesive is scary at first and it does have the downside you mention, it is one shot - you screw it up and thats it it's over for that part, but the plus is that the sheet will be stuck instantly for good and it is very simple to apply - I mask the airframe and just paint it on with a big flat soft brush your rivets look amazingly accurate and perfectly placed, I admire your endurance and determination to repeat a part 10 times until you are happy - I am part way with you, but there are some loose ones on my parts I just have to pretend are not there interesting method on the leading edges too watching and waiting for more Peter Derek B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peterpools Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 (edited) Geoff Amazing progress and looking absolutely fantastic Keep 'em coming Peter Edited September 29, 2016 by Peterpools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richdlc Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 looks amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 wow Geoff - that looks incredible using contact adhesive is scary at first and it does have the downside you mention, it is one shot - you screw it up and thats it it's over for that part, but the plus is that the sheet will be stuck instantly for good and it is very simple to apply - I mask the airframe and just paint it on with a big flat soft brush your rivets look amazingly accurate and perfectly placed, I admire your endurance and determination to repeat a part 10 times until you are happy - I am part way with you, but there are some loose ones on my parts I just have to pretend are not there interesting method on the leading edges too watching and waiting for more Peter Peter, I suppose that there is some consolation in the fact that rivets were never perfectly aligned on the full size aircraft during original build - so it is entirely possible that you and Geoff's riveting may be too good! (despite the fact that pilot holes are provided in many of the detail parts on the modern aircraft that I work with, there is still the odd fastener hole incorrectly drilled and placed occasionally - traditionally, these fastener positions would have been measured and pitched by hand before drilling, pinning and then back drilling for rivet application, so you are bound to have a few stray or wiggly rivet lines somewhere!). Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 Geoff, looks amazing. It truly does justice to all the effort you've put into it. Jim Jim Thank you very much. For a time I really thought this thing was going to defeat me. Looking at Peters spit gave me the inspiration to keep trying. Thanks for looking in... Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 Plane discussing........Harv Hey ole man...how you feeling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 Geoff, this looks terrific. You and Peter are the metal masters. Truly inspiring. Just one question: Wouldn't it be easier to start with the leading edge panels and then work rearward from there? Cheers Rainer Rainer, Glad you looked in and thank you for your more than kind comment. Regarding starting from the front and working back...I dont know if it would be easier. I never really considered it. I chose to use the TE as my reference surface. Everything was driven by the position of the static balance opening. That was the critical point. All of the alignments were critical, but if they didnt fit the balance cut out, then none of it would be any good. There is A LOT of stuff going on here. There are ninety degree X-Y rivet line alignments, complimentary angle rivet line alignments, jumping from one piece to another rivet line alignments, rivet lines that go around edges and double back on themselves, symmetry issues from part to part/ side to side because the rivet lines on one side have to match the rivet lines on the other or things dont line up. This said, I needed a reference edge that I could align to that need to be straight. The trailing edge gave me that...did I make sense? Id like to hear your thinking on it. Glad you looked in Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 wow Geoff - that looks incredible using contact adhesive is scary at first and it does have the downside you mention, it is one shot - you screw it up and thats it it's over for that part, but the plus is that the sheet will be stuck instantly for good and it is very simple to apply - I mask the airframe and just paint it on with a big flat soft brush your rivets look amazingly accurate and perfectly placed, I admire your endurance and determination to repeat a part 10 times until you are happy - I am part way with you, but there are some loose ones on my parts I just have to pretend are not there interesting method on the leading edges too watching and waiting for more Peter Peter What can I say? You know better than anyone whats going on here. Your comments carry great influence and I appreciate your companionship on this journey. Im working up the H stab LE's at the moment. Ill be back... Geoff Derek B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 Geoff Amazing progress and looking absolutely fantastic Keep 'em coming Peter Pete, Nothing compared to your Mossie... Geoff Derek B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 Peter, I suppose that there is some consolation in the fact that rivets were never perfectly aligned on the full size aircraft during original build - so it is entirely possible that you and Geoff's riveting may be too good! (despite the fact that pilot holes are provided in many of the detail parts on the modern aircraft that I work with, there is still the odd fastener hole incorrectly drilled and placed occasionally - traditionally, these fastener positions would have been measured and pitched by hand before drilling, pinning and then back drilling for rivet application, so you are bound to have a few stray or wiggly rivet lines somewhere!). Derek Derek, Stop trying to confuse reality with the facts Geoff Derek B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 looks amazing! Rich Always glad to have you look in...thank you Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 Between you and Peter I am reminded why I no longer build airplanes. NICE !! J Youre crazy...BUILD AN AIRPLANE!!! dead horses...I never heard of such a thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwing Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 Greetings All, A bit more progress on the tail planes. I look at what Peter does and cant help but wonder how he's able to progress so quickly. I still think there is more than one of him...but I digress. The tail plane tips need to be done yet but I was happy to finish off the LE"s. Ive learned a bit more about full anneal versus partial anneal and how it impacts not only material performance but also how it changes material susceptibility to damage from underlying FOD and surface irregularity. Full anneal makes the material much easier to form but leaves it very susceptible to damage. Partial anneal makes it more maleable than the hard state and very tough to damage, but it doesnt like to form as easily with a tendency to spring back. Ive yet to find a happy medium between the two states. A few pics... I didnt want the surface to be all the same. to change the finish appearance, the parts are made by rotating the material ninety degrees to change the direction of the grain which gives a subtle but visible panel effect. The main skins arent annealed. The LE's are partially annealed. Before the main skins are attached, they're rubbed down against a piece of glass..outer side down, back side up..using a piece of brass tube. This flattens the part and pushes the rivet bumps down flush with the surface. The back is then lightly sanded and wiped clean with lacquer thinner. Once this is done, the skin then goes face down on a piece of rubber, outer face down against the rubber. Its then rolled lightly, front to back, using the brass tube to impart a slight bend. This helps to preform the part to the curvature of the surface, but just as importantly, it keeps the edges down tight against the surfaceonce the part is put in place permanently. The tape on the center upper area around the base of the fin is the beginning of the template for the upper center fairing. The side skins will need to go on first before the side fairings can be done. The upper fuselage skin will also need to go on before the upperforward fairing can be applied. That about raps it up for this update. Hope everyone is well... Geoff Mal_Belford, Out2gtcha and 109 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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