Cheaper kits or more detail?

[LSP_Ray]

Great question.

 

My answer: Why choose? It's best to have options. I, like most of you, suffer from AMS, but there are times when I really need a quick build and still expect to see a well-detailed airplane as a result. Think of it as a way to satisfy the craving and keep the interest alive. High end kits fit this latter need.

 

Although I will admit that the most satisfaction I've gotten from modeling was when I took a dog kit (like the Monogram P-51D razorback) and brought it up to acceptable standards. Would it look as good as say, a Tamiya kit of the same caliber as their Zero/Spit? Most likely not; it would lack the uniformity of the rivets, panel lines, etc that can only be achieved with years of practice -which I haven't yet!

 

For the record, I'm in agreement with all of everyone's statements, good to know I'm not a screwball after all

My sentiments exactly!!

[Erwin]

As I only build OoB and never buy aftermarket I go for cheaper kits.

[Radub]

In actual fact there is little correlation between price and amount of detail.

Take for example Wingut Wings kits. They are very detailed. They are very complex. They are affordable. That is because you can buy it directly from them.

You can buy Trumpeter kits from the Far East on eBay and they are quite affordable. I recently bought a MiG23 from China on Ebay for 72 euro including postage. The nearest model shop has it for 110 euro. In the past I also bought many other Trumpeter kits from an eBay shop in China(P-47 Razorback, Avenger, P-38) at around 75% of the retail price in the hobby shop.

 

You see, the kits are actually affordable at the door of the manufacturer, such as for example Wingnut Wings. If you were to buy the Wingnut Wings kits from your local retailer instead of buying directly from Wingnut Wings (as we do right now), you would pay double.

The reason is very simple.

1) Most of these kits are made in the Far East.

2) The kit travels from the factory warehouse to the ship. The transporter needs to be paid.

3) The kit needs to be loaded into a container and shipped. Shipping and handling agent needs to be paid. Containers are paid by volume. The larger the kit box, the fewer boxes you can fit in the container, so a large box costs more to ship.

4) The kit arrives to the dispatch warehouse in your country. The government takes import tax and duty. Warehousing and handling agent needs to be paid.

5) The distributor takes the kit from the harbour warhouse to their own warehouse. They need to pay for transport. Some say that this is start of the crazyness. From this point forward, every time the kit changes hands, the price doubles.

6) The distributor sells the kit to the model shop and when doing so, they top-load the price with the sufficient amount to cover all of the above, plus a little bit extra to make some profit.

7) The model shop top-loads the price once more so that they can make a little bit of profit for themselves.

At every stage, everyone needs to make a profit. Nothing wrong with that, profit "oils" the "wheels" of the industry "cart".

 

So, before you get the kit in your hands, the price has risen many times. THAT is why Wingut Wings kits are so affordable. They skipped most of the above steps. In as far as I understand, Revell managed to keep control of most of these steps, most importantly by being their own dealers/warehouse agents and skipped the middle-men, which is how they can keep prices low. Others depend entirely on a chain of dealers and distributors. In fact, out of the price that an end-user pays for an expensive Chinese or Japanese kit, the manufacturer gets about 10% or less. So, if you ask for a "less detailed kit", you will not drive down prices. A less-detailed kit will incur the same shipping/handling expenses as a well-detailed kit. What you end up with is an expensive but less-detailed kit. Then what is the gain?

 

The solution? I do not know. Buying directly from the Far East worked for me in the past.

 

HTH

Radu

[Stanton]

I'm kinda go either way, by what I mean is that sometimes I will by an expensive kit, i.e. Trumpeter or Hasegawa, an I will add either one or mulitple aftermarket parts or kits to the subject I am working. Very seldom will I buy a cheap kit, cause they are usually 72nd scale and very rarely do I build 72nd models.

 

But as always it is totally up too the modeler on what he or she wants to do the subject they are working, the economy, or what is out in the market for them to make that particular aircraft they want.

 

 

Stanton

[DrDave]

As I only build OoB and never buy aftermarket I go for cheaper kits.

You should try an Eduard weekend 109 and a2zee 109D coversion. ITS £45 all in and easier than the 109E OOB.

[DaveJ]

Cheaper details! More kits!!

 

[thierry laurent]

Radu,

 

I think you hit the point regarding the relationship between prices and complexity/quality.

 

Besides this, the situation is not the same everywhere. Here, I've more than 8 model shops in a fifty miles circle area and possibly more than ten shops selling model paints in the same zone. However, it is an hard fact few of them sell Gunze or Modelmaster paints and kits like the PCM or the Special Hobby ones. Most rely on mainstream companies.

 

Even if you've often to rely on the post office in many areas, I generally disagree with you on the benefit resulting from buying overseas. This is NOT a panacea because:

 

- If we purchase all our kits from the Far East, all the Pa & Ma hobby shops will disappear. Consequently, are you going to purchase from Japan ONE new bottle of XYZ acrylic paint because the last one in your stash was half empty???

 

- When a part is missing or badly damaged in a kit, how do you solve the problem? For instance, getting replacement parts from Trumpeter is more or less impossible in such a case.

 

- When I compare the price plus post and packing plus all the taxes and fees, the difference is generally not terrific and in some cases, prices are on par.

 

The last large kit I purchased from Far East was the last Tamiya Tomcat. I'm still puzzled no part was damaged when I saw the kit box. It looked like an elephant sit on it...

 

 

My 2 cents.

[Radub]

Hi Thierry,

I agree with you on every count. I also would rather buy from the local shop. In fact, I buy as much as I can from my local shop. In my case, however, because I live in Ireland, I have access to very few model shops. My nearest model shop is 50Km away and it does not stock any Trumpeter, MPM/CMK/Azur, Kinetic, etc. In fact, all we get is mostly Revell, Italeri, Hobbycraft and Airfix. So, I have to rely on mailorder. Sadly, it is not the fault of the shop either. They are enthusiastic and willing to help, but they are stuck in the middle of trade wars between dealers/distributors who have exclusive distribution deals and crippling minimum order requirements. The people who rip us off with insane prices are not the manufacturers nor the retailers, but rather the local dealers/distributors.

 

So, by buying abroad, we actually "stick it to the man", which is seldom the Ma&Pa outfit, but rather some dude in a suit on the 35th floor of some City skyscraper trading containerloads of kits as commodities on a screen where they show up just as little boxes in a spreadsheet.

 

However, I am not offering or even suggesting a panacea. All I was saying was that there is seldom a strict correlation between price and detail. It is all to do with the many hands that the kit, detailed or plain, passes through until it reaches you. A simpler kit will not automatically mean a cheaper kit.

 

The true panacea would be to get rid of dealers and speculators. I have no idea how though...

 

Radu

[thierry laurent]

Too true... Damned importers and speculators...

 

I do not know if this is an urban legend but this story circulates in Belgium for many years:

 

In 1991, the Tamiya importer received this advice: "buy anything related to the Gulf, in some months the customer demand will be very high".

 

However, in French the words "Golfe" (gulf) and "Golf" (golf) are phonetically identical!

 

Guess what: they later complained because the had a warehouse full of golf clubs but saw no demand progress...

 

It is an hard fact most of those guys do not know what they sell.

[thierry laurent]

Jennings, I guess your situation is more representative of the average one, unfortunately...

 

I guess that there is at least one benefit to live in an handkerchief-sized country ;-)

[Gene]

Cheaper and more basic kits.

Another possibility is to sell empty boxes with just the art work and a voucher for the kit parts when you get around to building it (this just for the handful of modelers that accumulate 'stash').

[Hubert Boillot]

Cheaper and more basic kits.

Another possibility is to sell empty boxes with just the art work and a voucher for the kit parts when you get around to building it (this just for the handful of modelers that accumulate 'stash').

 

That reminds me of a charming guy who bought from me, for 50 €, the empty box of the Airfix 1/600 France (a legendary kit if any...). I am still left with the complete bags for the parts, but no box... and have decided that this scale was way too small for my eyesight now, and that I should concentrate on 1/200 scale and bigger when it comes to ships. So if someone is willing to build (not just collect) the Airfix 1/600 SS France, he knows where to find the parts and instructions (in japanese) and the decals, but sans box.

 

Hubert.

[Allok]

Well Lads, I'm in the same boat as Jennings; Cheaper for me to get my kits from the other side of the planet and seriously limited choice from my local source.

It's not really their fault, they have to stock items that sell and the most popular scale is still 1/72.

At least they carry Mr Hobby Acrylics.

[oletcherfred]

Bias aside(I am an after-market manufacturer), what about the younger modelers? How about keeping the kit price low, sacrificing extra details rather than accuracy, and let the younger modelers whet their appetites at lower cost? Get 'em hooked, as it were !  <evil grin>

 

Other than that, I am with most of ya, especially Stephen on most counts.

 

BTW, where are the emoticons - not visible on the page I see...

[Royboy]

Hi Royboy,

this is my first contribution to any forum..

I have been reading 17 pages forum on the 'dutch' Wingscale B25 Mitchell and frankly speaking I would love to buy that kit even at the cost of over 100 Euro but see below:

I am FOR lower price, which does not necessarily means less detail, but those who want more detail can buy it from aftermarket suppliers or make it themselves....

I belong to the group that makes my mouth watering when seeing the finely detailed 'end products' in the various forums and shows, but although I'm building plastic kits for over 60 years, and although trying to make the next kit better than the previous one, I never manage to obtain the perfection of those perfectionists. And I do not spend money on AM cockpits, tires etc. details and PE, but buy kits that according to the forum informations will offer good quality in both fit and surface detail to an acceptable price (Tamiya although quite expensive, but nowadays also Trumpeter (P38 Lightning) or Academy (F16 Block 40/50)are affordable at reasonable good quality.

Yet, when finished, I am happy to look at a model that looks not too bad, but then comes the next problem: Where to put all kits? When not turned out too well, my grandchilds are happy for a while... And they will disappear slowly to the landfill.. (the kits, not the kids)

And if I am really disappointed (even after spending quite some bucks) of either MY labour quality or the quality of the kit, I have no problem to stamp it down.....

I am wondering where the hundreds of thousands of beautiful models will end up after the mnakers ended up..... (I'm 74, you see..)

 

Best regards to all

Koos

Hi Koos,

Firstly, welcome to our forum and our little gang of 'crazy' people!

After sixty years of modelling I would think you've seen just about every type of model kit going in the larger scales so you've seen those incremental improvements over the years more than most of us.

Prices were probably more affordable to most hobbyists then, and the hobby thrived for everyone involved.

The details we get now are a fantastic leap over most kits produced even twenty years ago.

My greatest concern is that some subjects might not be seen as being 'commercial' and considered cost ineffective, if manufacturers feel that lot's of super detail has to go into it or it won't sell.

Most of the guys on here, so far, have confirmed that they are happy to sacrifice some of the extras to get the subjects they want that might help make it cheaper and then, more importantly, available!

Of course the younger modellers will benefit too, under £25/$35 for a kit might just tempt the mums and dads to buy little 'johnny' that all important first larger scale kit.

Trumpeter and others are going for the 'high end' kit, Revell is going for the 'value' market.

For the good of the hobby, and our scale in particular, I do hope that we get a fair balance in the future and that very high prices don't kill the 'front end' of larger scale modelling.

I hope you'll post many more times Koos, and I also hope that you enjoy your stay with us!

All the very best, Roy.