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Best F4-E Phantom? … advice?


Artful69
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13 minutes ago, thierry laurent said:

As Tony wrote, cutting back the C/D fuselage part front is very easy. With regard to the instrument panels and exhausts, you will still have a problem as the E kit does not give you another cockpit and the later exhausts are underscaled! There's no easy or cheap way to model a large scale F-4E! The three sprues I linked give all the required parts that are accurate. For the rest, even with the F-4E kit, you will need aftermarket.

 

 

Ok ... so I'm thinking Quinta Studios IP's for the Tamiya E or EJ kit ... also AM seamless corrected intakes and nozzles. RAAF decals.

All with either - 

A bunch of sprues with a C/D kit ...

OR ... An EJ or an E kit

 

Is that about it??

 

Rog :)

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1 hour ago, Artful69 said:

 

Ok ... so I'm thinking Quinta Studios IP's for the Tamiya E or EJ kit ... also AM seamless corrected intakes and nozzles. RAAF decals.

All with either - 

A bunch of sprues with a C/D kit ...

OR ... An EJ or an E kit

 

Is that about it??

 

Rog :)

In one word: YES!

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1 hour ago, Artful69 said:

 

Ok ... so I'm thinking Quinta Studios IP's for the Tamiya E or EJ kit ... also AM seamless corrected intakes and nozzles. RAAF decals.

All with either - 

A bunch of sprues with a C/D kit ...

OR ... An EJ or an E kit

 

Is that about it??

 

Rog :)

Just note, if you want to save some money, you can easily modify the kit intakes. 

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The other issue is which nozzles? Aires are underscale, just like the kit's, so ResKit or GT Resin probably.

I bought QMT for mine even though they were theoretically for the newer Revell E. It'll be my first long nozzle build but a successful dry run suggests a positive outcome.  

 

There are several approaches to fixing the inlets, almost certainly available on past LSP WIP threads, but resin inlets arguably require less cutting, grinding and filling as long as you're happy superglueing them in place.

 

Tony

 

 

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The old Cutting Edge afterburners were underscale, too. Sierra Hotel made some nice afterburners, if you can find them. Everything I've seen from Reskit has been excellent. 

 

Speaking of Cutting Edge, don't bother with the F-4E conversion for the F-4C/D kit. The nose is a mess, just like the Revell nose. I once spent hours trying to fix the shape, but there were too many problems that just couldn't be fixed. Fortunately for me, Tamiya released the F-4E kit before I lost my mind battling the CE set.

 

Ben

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On 8/8/2022 at 4:53 AM, Ben Brown said:

If you want to build an F-4E in 1/32, your best bet is to track down the Tamiya kit. As has previously been noted, the Revell/Academy kits have shape issues. The old 1970s-vintage Revell F-4E kit is best avoided

 

I once spent many hours trying to correct the shape of the Cutting Edge nose, but it just wasn't possible. There was way too much wrong with it. 

 

Ben

True that the old 1970s kit should be avoided, but I saw a build of the 1990s Revell kit with the 1970s Revell E nose grafted on, it looked exactly as it should. And the crap kit cost less than the resin bits. YMMV.

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13 hours ago, Lee White said:

True that the old 1970s kit should be avoided, but I saw a build of the 1990s Revell kit with the 1970s Revell E nose grafted on, it looked exactly as it should. And the crap kit cost less than the resin bits. YMMV.

 

Wait ...

 

So there are 2 different Revell castings?? ...

Now THAT, I was not aware of!!!

I'll have a dive into Thierry's tweek lists to see what's what ...

 

So what's the deal with each of these - the newer moulding is dodgy - but the old one is just ... old??

 

Rog :)

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52 minutes ago, Artful69 said:

 

Wait ...

 

So there are 2 different Revell castings?? ...

Now THAT, I was not aware of!!!

I'll have a dive into Thierry's tweek lists to see what's what ...

 

So what's the deal with each of these - the newer moulding is dodgy - but the old one is just ... old??

 

Rog :)

Look here-this is the last of the "old" kits,all backwards are old design

from 1994 and on-new

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/revell-4768-usmc-rf-4b-phantom-ii--177871

 

There are several nose corrections for the Revell kits

Edited by iaf-man
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The old one is VERY basic. This is a reflect of the Sixties model kits standard. The second generation of kits is far better but for whatever reason it has MANY other shape issues! We are not really blessed with regard to large scale Phantoms... Finally, the Tamiya kits stay the best option in spite of their deficiencies.

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On 8/8/2022 at 4:18 PM, thierry laurent said:

Backdating a J would not be more simple as the mark had naval features you do not see on the E.

 

Ok ... just revisiting this option ...

 

Since I'm buying resin AM intakes and exhausts (nullifying the 'different' engines) ... and also a full Quinta interior set (which should nullify any interior changes) ... what else would need correcting? are there any major external shape issues?? ... problems with armament?? ...

 

Rog :)

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The fuselage shape issues cannot be corrected by aftermarket and stayed as they are on all kits I saw. I think you still have the basic F-4C/D cockpit parts in the J  kit. So you should be ok in that part. With regard to the weapons they do not change between the boxes. However, this does not solve the E nose issue! You should double check the type of stabilator and pylon you need as aftermarket does not cover that (anymore for the stabs). You need unslatted stabs for F-4C/D and slatted for E. Similarly, you need straight leading edge pylons (Navy type) for very early F-4Cs and rounded ones for all later AF planes.

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3 hours ago, thierry laurent said:

The fuselage shape issues cannot be corrected by aftermarket and stayed as they are on all kits I saw.

- I didn't know that fuselage needed correcting?? - If they are the same on all kits then they are the same on the 'J' as they are on the 'E' - correct??

I think you still have the basic F-4C/D cockpit parts in the J  kit. So you should be ok in that part.

- Ok well, because I'm ordering Quinta stuff anyway it shouldn't make any difference - yes??

With regard to the weapons they do not change between the boxes.

- So ... I will have what I need in the J kit - in order to make the E ??

However, this does not solve the E nose issue!

- So the 'J' nose is different to the 'E' ??

You should double check the type of stabilator and pylon you need as aftermarket does not cover that (anymore for the stabs).

- No idea where to go with this ...

You need unslatted stabs for F-4C/D and slatted for E.

- Apparently early 'E's didn't have the slats?? ... and I have no idea what configuration the RAAF planes had (early or late) ... only that they were 'E's - and delivered between 1970-73

Similarly, you need straight leading edge pylons (Navy type) for very early F-4Cs and rounded ones for all later AF planes.

- I can probably assume these would be in the 'J' kit?

 

Cheers

Rog :)

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-The fuselage is essentially the same on all of the Tamiya F-4 kits.  The nose is cut back on the E and EJ kit fuselages to attach the gun nose parts, but from the cockpit back it’s all the same.

 

-The missiles are the same in all of the boxings, but not all of the kits have the bombs and MERs/TERs.  The J kit lack the bombs, but they are included in the J Marines boxings.  All the Air Force Phantom kits all have the bombs.  BTW, the Sidewinders represent AIM-9E models, which were never used by the Navy.

 

-The nose is vastly different between the gun nosed F-4s and the radar nosed F-4s.  Aside from being longer, and having a long underside fairing for the gun, the nose gear doors are different as they are part of the fairing.  Just look at pictures of the versions, and it’s pretty obvious.

 

-It’s actually slots, not slats, on the stabilizers.  The C/D lacks the slot on the leading edge of the stab.  The J and E/EJ versions have a slot.  Slats are on the wing.

 

-Yes, the straight pylons are in the J kit, but the curved pylons are not in the straight J boxings.  Both pylons are in the J Marines boxings, because the curved pylons are on the bomb sprues.  The C/D and E/EJ kits only have the curved pylons.

 

There are tweak lists for the Tamiya Phantom kits here on LSP that are worth reviewing.

 

It honestly isn’t worth converting a J kit to a gun nose F-4.

 

 

Edited by Dave Williams
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