Curtiss P-40E/Kittyhawk MK.I rear canopy color?

[quang]

Hello everyone,

For my next project, I’m planning to build the Hasegawa P-40E in RAF desert camouflage ca.1942. Apparently the aircraft had the underside painted in Azure Blue over the original DuPont ‘sky’.
What I’d like to know is the colour used under the rear windows of the canopy.
Should it be : the camouflage color, Curtiss Green, yellow ZC, olive drab or something else?

I’m counting on your expertise.

Thank you for your input

Cheers,

Quang

[Kagemusha]

Funny enough I've just been looking at the Osprey P-40 Warhawk Aces of the MTO, on the back cover is a colour photo of a desert scheme Torch op P-40F, and the area in question looks like olive drab.

[Tolga ULGUR]

Hi Quang

This topic is a bit speculative in my opinion.
Although the general belief is the color of outer camouflage, the opposite is also seen.
I mostly use curtiss int green.
I have attach some different app pictures below

 

 

 

[quang]

I think the color depends most on the timeline and the variant.

I’m planning to do ET574, a Kittyhawk Mk.I of the 260 sqn RAF before its fateful ending .
Its WRECK was discovered in 2012 in the Sahara desert. 
One can see the cockpit rear sides on the photos, still protected by the glass panels but so strongly discolored that the color cannot be told.

Maybe someone will come up with a definitive answer.

 

Thank you Tolga and Kage for your input.

Cheers,

Quang

 

[Tolga ULGUR]

When I saw the wreck picture which is attached below, It seems that ( with the help of broken glass) inside of the rear side window painted camo color Middlestone.

So the same application of my previous pictures.

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Tolga ULGUR

[quang]

You’ve got a point Tolga It never came to mind to look past the broken window 

[Tolga ULGUR]

37 minutes ago, quang said:

You’ve got a point Tolga It never came to mind to look past the broken window 

[D Bellis]

The color under the rear windows of in-service P-40s is one of those extremely rare "always" and "never" things to do with WWII aviation. 

 

That area was always painted in one or more of the exterior camo colors (or left NMF on some early prototypes), and never painted Interior Green. 

 

Look at color photographs/images (not colorized) and discard the ones with obvious glare on that window. 

 

Yes, I'm aware that kit instructions often erroneously state that area is to be painted various shades of interior colors or Zinc Chromate. But it wasn't. Not ever. 

 

HTH,

D

[Troy Molitor]

What D said......

[Tolga ULGUR]

8 hours ago, D Bellis said:

The color under the rear windows of in-service P-40s is one of those extremely rare "always" and "never" things to do with WWII aviation. 

 

That area was always painted in one or more of the exterior camo colors (or left NMF on some early prototypes), and never painted Interior Green. 

 

Look at color photographs/images (not colorized) and discard the ones with obvious glare on that window. 

 

Yes, I'm aware that kit instructions often erroneously state that area is to be painted various shades of interior colors or Zinc Chromate. But it wasn't. Not ever. 

 

HTH,

D

Thanks for the clarification

In this case, can we say that in the later painted P-40s (desert camouflage), sometimes the side windows are removed and painted, while sometimes the old color is left as it is?

In the below Kittyhawk , it looks like the inside of the window is left in dark green. Middlestone is not applied. Agreed??

[quang]

41 minutes ago, Tolga ULGUR said:

sometimes the side windows are removed and painted, while sometimes the old color is left as it is?

Depends on the urgency.

Take the azure blue on the undersides. Sometimes they didn’t bother to use masks and in some cases there was overspray on the gear legs, the wheel discs and even the tyres 

[dennismcc]

I've got a great LSP thread on this subject from 2017 in Word (copied and pasted) but the link on it does not work, maybe it was deleted.

However here is a post by Dana Bell from it.

 

Hope you don't mind another opinion.  I suspect the interior was Yellow Green, the color that Curtiss Cockpit Green was trying to emulate.  They're pretty close, though records suggest the Curtiss color was a bit grayer.  My reason for suggesting this is that the Curtiss color wasn't adopted until 31 August 1942, and P-40E production was just about done that month (replaced by the P-40K).

 

All P-40E-1s were delivered in the RAF temperate scheme, so desert colors would have been applied by the Brits.  The area behind the rear vision windows would have left the factory in a very poor version of Dark Earth.  If the Brits had wanted to take the time, they could have removed the forward clips, slid the windows out (there was one piece on each side), and repainted the metal  - not so hard, but it doesn't seem to have happened very often.

As always, a good photo is your best friend...

Cheers,

Dana

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Tolga ULGUR]

1 hour ago, dennismcc said:

I've got a great LSP thread on this subject from 2017 in Word (copied and pasted) but the link on it does not work, maybe it was deleted.

However here is a post by Dana Bell from it.

 

Hope you don't mind another opinion.  I suspect the interior was Yellow Green, the color that Curtiss Cockpit Green was trying to emulate.  They're pretty close, though records suggest the Curtiss color was a bit grayer.  My reason for suggesting this is that the Curtiss color wasn't adopted until 31 August 1942, and P-40E production was just about done that month (replaced by the P-40K).

 

All P-40E-1s were delivered in the RAF temperate scheme, so desert colors would have been applied by the Brits.  The area behind the rear vision windows would have left the factory in a very poor version of Dark Earth.  If the Brits had wanted to take the time, they could have removed the forward clips, slid the windows out (there was one piece on each side), and repainted the metal  - not so hard, but it doesn't seem to have happened very often.

As always, a good photo is your best friend...

Cheers,

Dana

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

Well

I started a P-40N-1 last week and already put the fuselage parts together and moved on to the wings. As before, I painted the inside of the side windows int green. I can't fix it after this time
Please don't remind me that the color is wrong when it's finished

Edited May 26, 2022 by Tolga ULGUR

[dennismcc]

16 minutes ago, Tolga ULGUR said:

Well

I started a P-40N-1 last week and already put the fuselage parts together and moved on to the wings. As before, I painted the inside of the side windows int green. I can't fix it after this time
Please don't remind me that the color is wrong when it's finished

I know nothing !

[waroff]

17 minutes ago, Tolga ULGUR said:

Well

I started a P-40N-1 last week and already put the fuselage parts together and moved on to the wings. As before, I painted the inside of the side windows int green. I can't fix it after this time
Please don't remind me that the color is wrong when it's finished

 

as specified on paint scheme, the rear desk of P40N is olive drab as top side camo.