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D.B. Andrus

Late War RLM usage of 81/82, etc.

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7 hours ago, anj4de said:

I always tell myself that my english (your english) is a thousend times better then their French or German... ;-)

 

I'll have you know that i can do all the essential words needed in German. I can order a beer, bratwurst, frits mit mayo and swear. I didn't waste my 4 years being based in Germany honest lol :beer4:

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I just wish there was a decent acrylic paint for RLM 81.  I love Mission Models Paint, but their RLM 81 is so far off as to be unusable.  Although the color chart they have on their web page does show a brownish color, what comes in the bottle is a medium light green that isn’t even close.  The “new” Vallejo air RLM 81 71.264 is pretty much the same, clearly a medium green color.  Their “old” RLM 81 colors 71.043 or 71.042 as shown in the ZM Ta152 and Do335 instructions seem more convincing to me.  Right now, I’m leaning toward the AK interactive RLM 81 (they also use it for RLM 61) best, although it’s not quite as good as I’d like it.  It’s a dark brown olive drab, and I think is just missing the slight violet tint that I think is needed.

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32 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:

I just wish there was a decent acrylic paint for RLM 81.  I love Mission Models Paint, but their RLM 81 is so far off as to be unusable.  Although the color chart they have on their web page does show a brownish color, what comes in the bottle is a medium light green that isn’t even close.  The “new” Vallejo air RLM 81 71.264 is pretty much the same, clearly a medium green color.  Their “old” RLM 81 colors 71.043 or 71.042 as shown in the ZM Ta152 and Do335 instructions seem more convincing to me.  Right now, I’m leaning toward the AK interactive RLM 81 (they also use it for RLM 61) best, although it’s not quite as good as I’d like it.  It’s a dark brown olive drab, and I think is just missing the slight violet tint that I think is needed.

 

My current FW190 project...81/82 coming from Gunze Mr.Color range, laqeur paints. It looks brown to me... ;-)

 

19948533.jpg

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Hello, My name is Kimbra S. and I am the office manager for Eagle Editions. Since Jerry is badly "under the weather" he asked me to share the following information with fellow enthusiasts. In the mid 1990s  Jerry and Judy traveled to Germany again this time to meet with Warnecke & Böhm  the leading manufacturer of paint for the Luftwaffe in WW II. They met with the management staff including the CEO, head chemist etc. Lots of interesting information came from the meeting.  Here are some  condensed excerpts from Jerry's Fw 190 Dora book vol. 2 . " The German war industry was dramatically altered when Dr. Pomper, head of W&B received two patents in the late 1930s. these patents were for a new formula based on an artificial resin polymer based paint. This new formula had superior adhesion to aluminum and magnesium. As a result no primer was needed as with  previous standard lacquer based paints. This helped in time, money and weight plus was fade resistant. Of course RLM 45 Red Oxide was still needed for fabric. The RLM was so pleased with this new formula they directed other paint companies to use this resin, trade marked IKORAL, and pay W&B a royalty."W&B was so pleased that J&J was interested(to say the least) that they searched their old files and gave J&J everything they had from the wartime. They explained that as the Russians were approaching Berlin W&B destroyed most of their files including the late war color data.  The material given included copies of Dr. Pomper's patents and all the original RLM color recipes they had. These are published in Jerry's book.

        RLM 66;   In the original recipes there are seven 66 formulas. This is because the RLM directed W&B to develop formulas that included fire and acid resistance qualities. As a result the color was slightly altered and can be seen in late war parts to have a slight dark green cast, very evident on an Me 262 rudder pedal we have in our collection. Paint companies were told to cut back production on RLM 02 as this new 66 would replace 02 on some parts like landing gear legs. Amazing to W&B was that no researcher had visited them prior to J&J. 

             Hope this helps, and as Jerry says, cheers, Kimbra S.

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28 minutes ago, Jerry Crandall said:

RLM 66;   In the original recipes there are seven 66 formulas. This is because the RLM directed W&B to develop formulas that included fire and acid resistance qualities. As a result the color was slightly altered and can be seen in late war parts to have a slight dark green cast, very evident on an Me 262 rudder pedal we have in our collection. Paint companies were told to cut back production on RLM 02 as this new 66 would replace 02 on some parts like landing gear legs.

Amazing to W&B was that no researcher had visited them prior to J&J

 

No, really ?

 

And there are other sources of information beside W&B: The British survey contains a copy of ALL original documentation from EVERY firm involved in a/c paint production during WW2. It also contains interview transcripts, and it's in english which is more practical.

 

:whistle:

 

And it's Ikarol, not Ikoral

 

Edited by Vincent/MDC

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I think a typing error, as you have suggested, generated by a girl working in the EE office can be overlooked...

 

Mark Proulx

Edited by Mark P

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1 hour ago, Jerry Crandall said:

They explained that as the Russians were approaching Berlin W&B destroyed most of their files including the late war color data.

 

Whoever was tasked to do that did not do a good job as you find a copy of these very files in the british 1945-46 survey

Edited by Vincent/MDC

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5 minutes ago, Jennings Heilig said:

STOP THE PRESSES!!!  NEW RESEARCH JUST UNEARTHED!!!

1wcdNY.png

 

Discuss... :)

 

 

My good friends at B&W told me about these new colors when they gave me their secret files about 20 years ago.

 

It basically had to do with the Luftwaffe wanting a more "socially acceptable" image. Swastika was to be replaced by a peace symbol. I have a couple of panels from a Me109K6 in my collection which show traces of these colors.

 

You can see below a Messerschmitt painted with the revised RLM81 :

 

47695022_1971631739571561_16852129333301

 

 

Edited by Vincent/MDC

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Well...  If Anything, this thread has inspired me to look for Jerry Crandall's Books.  However, my favorite bookseller lists all of Jerry's titles on it's site as unavailable.   Anyone know a good place(s) to find them?

 

Gaz

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