1:18 Hobbyboss AV-8B Harrier

[Bobski]

Thank  you 

[otis252]

Amazing work, looking forward to using this on my build. Question though. What did you use for the seat belts? They look great. Thanks.

Chuck

[patricksparks]

5 hours ago, otis252 said:

Amazing work, looking forward to using this on my build. Question though. What did you use for the seat belts? They look great. Thanks.

Chuck

The belts are made from .015 thick aluminum tape that I removed the adhesive from, cut it to a width that looks appropriate, the upper shoulder harnesses I used the aluminum tape and put it inside electronic "shrink tube" and shrunk it around the tape belts to look like the zipped on covers that are on the real aircraft's upper harness belts, the aluminum is still pliable/bendable inside the tube. The buckles I made from styrene and added some photo-etched screw heads to their sides to make them look a little more mechanical/functional.

[patricksparks]

Figured out how to paint the molded in "DET CORD"  in the top of the canopy, it only took about an hour to do. I used model master enamel, I can't say what other paint might work the same without problems, acrylics might be ok, you have to experiment. What I did is hand brushed the model master enamel on and made sure that I covered the entire width of the "CORD" so that there were no clear edges showing, I let the paint dry for less than 5 minutes(I didn't put it on thick) I used a sharpened wooden cotton swab shaft(tooth picks will work) and GENTLY rubbed the excess enamel away, using the point to get into the corners, the enamel doesn't "bite into the plastic as long as it is straight from the bottle. Just be careful not to rub real hard as it might start to scratch the canopy.

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by patricksparks

[Kirk]

Hi Patrick etc.

Are any of these any use to you chaps? My 3D model is based on the UK Harrier II so there are a few cockpit differences but there is a great deal of commonality. Somewhere I have a better model of the HUD unit, so ignore the dodgy unfinished combiner brackets. Anyone contemplating a GR5/7/9 version may be interested in the MB seat model I have.

 

I'm afraid I never got around to moving on from the dreaded photobucket so if the links don't work for you (they previewed OK for me), let me know and I'll come up with a plan B.

Cheers,

Kirk

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah55/ZG862/Snapshot 7_zpsleaqcyn2.jpg[/IMG]

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah55/ZG862/Snapshot 6_zpstwxrgwqv.jpg[/IMG]

 

 

[patricksparks]

1 hour ago, Kirk said:

Hi Patrick etc.

Are any of these any use to you chaps? My 3D model is based on the UK Harrier II so there are a few cockpit differences but there is a great deal of commonality. Somewhere I have a better model of the HUD unit, so ignore the dodgy unfinished combiner brackets. Anyone contemplating a GR5/7/9 version may be interested in the MB seat model I have.

 

I'm afraid I never got around to moving on from the dreaded photobucket so if the links don't work for you (they previewed OK for me), let me know and I'll come up with a plan B.

Cheers,

Kirk

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah55/ZG862/Snapshot 7_zpsleaqcyn2.jpg[/IMG]

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah55/ZG862/Snapshot 6_zpstwxrgwqv.jpg[/IMG]

 

 

Thank you Kirk , for posting your 3D models, wish I had a printer, I would have like to have everything printed instead of hand fabricating !!!! Super nice work you've done on these !!!

[Kirk]

Thanks Patrick - They're actually quite old and I *think* my CAD skills are a little better nowadays. I've been lucky enough to have had my mitts on a few real Harrier pieces on occasion and those ones look much better than the bits where I'm making it up. It does mean that I have approximate dimensions for many cockpit elements and the CAD files can reasonably easily be converted into STL format for 3D printing if anything in particular catches your eye. I have a Shapeways account if you can bear their pricing model. Pedals are pretty much universally badly modelled by the manufacturers, along with the control column (which I don't think I've ever seen represented as anything but the vaguest passing resemblance of the real thing).

 

I really like the work you've done in styrene - huge improvement on what came out of the box.

 

Ever seen Vitaliy's Harrier on BM? The thread takes a little while to warm up but is worth persisting if you like Harriers.

[patricksparks]

I decided to work on the intake trunks, the one issue that I have been pondering was how to put the small fillets in where the trunk meets the side of the forward fuselage, the problem I was seeing was how do you put the fillet in be able to get to it to sand it in nicely, I figured you need to get to both ends of the fillets in order to make them look nice and smooth and even. So what I have done is glued shim to the kit's intake trunks to match up to the fuselage better and checking the fit the whole time into the main fuselage halves, now I have glued the trunks directly to the foward fuselage halves this way I can access both ends of the trunks, put in fillets, sand them and paint it all white much more easily(I HOPE).

 

 

[Kirk]

Hobbyboss have done some, er, "interesting" things with the cockpit shape, haven't they? The sides of the real thing meet at an edge (save for the central bullet and some outlets top & bottom) where the kit seems to have a significantly sized flat face. I think it is probably too wide and doesn't start tapering early enough. Somewhere I have the dimension for the distance across the forward corners of the canopy. If you are interested, let me know and I'll dig it out.

 

The other thing that I'd point out is that the aft edge of the intake that you have glued in is NOT perpendicular to the longitudinal axis; it slopes aft at the top & bottom. If you can get your hands on any pics taken looking forward from the engine bay you'll see what I mean. Although the 1st gen Harrier's intake is subtly different in detail, the basic shape is pretty similar so references from these should be useful.  Vitaliy made a pretty good copy of the intake on that build I linked - as he did with the fillets. 

 

I do appreciate that it is a thankless and largely futile task to try and turn a model like this into something which stands up to very close scrutiny and I think the work you are doing is great. Keep it up!

 

Kirk

PS/ Not sure if you're planning on adding the bleed air ducts (that exist in those prominent rectangular holes in the deck behind the canopy). If so, don't do what I did on an unfinished 1/24 GR3 and leave it too late as it's hard to do well once the seat bulkhead is in. You actually get a pretty good view of them in most pics of the NLG bay - they're the tapering rectangular section boxes inboard of that "stacked pair of rectangular panel lines" you see just aft of the intake ring.

[patricksparks]

2 hours ago, Kirk said:

Hobbyboss have done some, er, "interesting" things with the cockpit shape, haven't they? The sides of the real thing meet at an edge (save for the central bullet and some outlets top & bottom) where the kit seems to have a significantly sized flat face. I think it is probably too wide and doesn't start tapering early enough. Somewhere I have the dimension for the distance across the forward corners of the canopy. If you are interested, let me know and I'll dig it out.

 

The other thing that I'd point out is that the aft edge of the intake that you have glued in is NOT perpendicular to the longitudinal axis; it slopes aft at the top & bottom. If you can get your hands on any pics taken looking forward from the engine bay you'll see what I mean. Although the 1st gen Harrier's intake is subtly different in detail, the basic shape is pretty similar so references from these should be useful.  Vitaliy made a pretty good copy of the intake on that build I linked - as he did with the fillets. 

 

I do appreciate that it is a thankless and largely futile task to try and turn a model like this into something which stands up to very close scrutiny and I think the work you are doing is great. Keep it up!

 

Kirk

PS/ Not sure if you're planning on adding the bleed air ducts (that exist in those prominent rectangular holes in the deck behind the canopy). If so, don't do what I did on an unfinished 1/24 GR3 and leave it too late as it's hard to do well once the seat bulkhead is in. You actually get a pretty good view of them in most pics of the NLG bay - they're the tapering rectangular section boxes inboard of that "stacked pair of rectangular panel lines" you see just aft of the intake ring.

Thank you, Kirk, appreciate all the information !!! Yeah, I'm probably going to put the aux intakes in, not sure what you see when looking down to the holes ??? Same goes for the rectangular exhaust/intake on the top of the wing just behind the canopy ???

 

[Kirk]

Hi Patrick.

 

Let's start with the easiest first - the 2nd picture. Please excuse me if I pitch this too low; The fact that you're building a Harrier elevates you above average mortals (it actually says something like this in the USMC pilot's operating manual) but who knows what you know?  

The nature of the Harrier's mission means that it needs to be able to operate with the bare minimum of support. Primary to this is the ability to start independently - so the Harrier has a GTS/APU - that's a Gas Turbine Starter/Auxiliary Power Unit in English. It's a little gas turbine engine that piggy backs the stonking great Pegasus beneath it. As the name implies, it does 2 things. In APU mode, it can drive a generator to provide electrical power for the comms & navigation systems so that for example the aircraft can calibrate the inertial navigation system (backup GPS if you like) whilst parked in a forest/supermarket and receive a briefing over the radio. The other part of the GTS/APUs role is kind obvious from the name: it starts the main engine via the gearbox assembly that is so awfully represented on the kit. Amusingly, the GTS has its own electric starter powered from the battery. Anyway, when it's doing it GTS/APU stuff, it sucks in air (right hand duct, filtered through that mesh you see) and coughs up exhaust (right hand duct, no mesh). Everett's have one for sale on ebay atm if you want to see what it looks like. I started drawing it many moons ago but gave up when I went 3D.

 

Right. Back to the intake boundary layer ducts in your 1st pic. Travel forwards through a fluid quickly and it does irritating things like sticking to the skin of your vehicle. In a Harrier, this is particularly irritating because it mucks up the airflow to the fan and reduces its performance. Wouldn't it be nice if you could scrape some of this boundary air off and thus help the engine breathe more easily? (did anyone else think "Tunes!" then??). We'll it turns out you can. If you stick a couple of  pairs of rectangular doors on the sides of the intake, aft of the seat bulkhead and then duct them to an opening behind the closed canopy, fancy aerodynamics will create a nice little pressure drop for you that will suck the doors open a little bit and drag off some of the boundary layer. All this figured out by very clever chaps/chapesses in Kingston (-Upon-Thames, London. There's a nasty housing estate there nowadays.). If you were to look down that rectangulareish outlet, you'd see the sides of the duct, with the inboard face slanting towards the fuselage skin. Little bit grubby as I'd imaging they don't get a lot of cleaning - though there is a bung for the top to stop squirrels nesting in there and fiddling with the door springs. As I mentioned before, take a look at some landing gear bay pics and you'll see these (the ducts not the squirrels) on the flanks of the bay, getting wider as they go up.

 

That's about the best I can do without pictures. Did it answer your questions?.

 

Cheers,

 

Kirk

 

 

[patricksparks]

1 hour ago, Kirk said:

Hi Patrick.

 

Let's start with the easiest first - the 2nd picture. Please excuse me if I pitch this too low; The fact that you're building a Harrier elevates you above average mortals (it actually says something like this in the USMC pilot's operating manual) but who knows what you know?  

The nature of the Harrier's mission means that it needs to be able to operate with the bare minimum of support. Primary to this is the ability to start independently - so the Harrier has a GTS/APU - that's a Gas Turbine Starter/Auxiliary Power Unit in English. It's a little gas turbine engine that piggy backs the stonking great Pegasus beneath it. As the name implies, it does 2 things. In APU mode, it can drive a generator to provide electrical power for the comms & navigation systems so that for example the aircraft can calibrate the inertial navigation system (backup GPS if you like) whilst parked in a forest/supermarket and receive a briefing over the radio. The other part of the GTS/APUs role is kind obvious from the name: it starts the main engine via the gearbox assembly that is so awfully represented on the kit. Amusingly, the GTS has its own electric starter powered from the battery. Anyway, when it's doing it GTS/APU stuff, it sucks in air (right hand duct, filtered through that mesh you see) and coughs up exhaust (right hand duct, no mesh). Everett's have one for sale on ebay atm if you want to see what it looks like. I started drawing it many moons ago but gave up when I went 3D.

 

Right. Back to the intake boundary layer ducts in your 1st pic. Travel forwards through a fluid quickly and it does irritating things like sticking to the skin of your vehicle. In a Harrier, this is particularly irritating because it mucks up the airflow to the fan and reduces its performance. Wouldn't it be nice if you could scrape some of this boundary air off and thus help the engine breathe more easily? (did anyone else think "Tunes!" then??). We'll it turns out you can. If you stick a couple of  pairs of rectangular doors on the sides of the intake, aft of the seat bulkhead and then duct them to an opening behind the closed canopy, fancy aerodynamics will create a nice little pressure drop for you that will suck the doors open a little bit and drag off some of the boundary layer. All this figured out by very clever chaps/chapesses in Kingston (-Upon-Thames, London. There's a nasty housing estate there nowadays.). If you were to look down that rectangulareish outlet, you'd see the sides of the duct, with the inboard face slanting towards the fuselage skin. Little bit grubby as I'd imaging they don't get a lot of cleaning - though there is a bung for the top to stop squirrels nesting in there and fiddling with the door springs. As I mentioned before, take a look at some landing gear bay pics and you'll see these (the ducts not the squirrels) on the flanks of the bay, getting wider as they go up.

 

That's about the best I can do without pictures. Did it answer your questions?.

 

Cheers,

 

Kirk

 

 

Thank you again ! I had a feeling that that opening on top of the wing was an exhaust as I've seen a photo that looked as if the area had exhaust staining around it. I guess what I'm wondering on that is can you actually see the APU or is it  just an exhaust trunk/ductthat you would be looking into from above ? As for the aux intakes I'm asuming that you would look down inside them from above and see down to the bottom of them where they end next to the top of the landing gear pivot(basically) ? 

 

[Kirk]

[Blimey - I've looked a so many Harrier gear bays but when it comes to finding a particular pic online, can't find a thing.]

 

Again, in reverse order:

1. NO. Your arrows are pointing at the reinforcement of the section of the main intake where it is rapidly coming to the knife edge I talked about earlier. The boundary air ducts are at the top of the picture forward and outboard of that cross web. The left hand duct (right hand of the picture) is almost total obscured by all those hydraulic jacks & links but the right had one is pretty clear; row of rivets down each edge, bit of green primer showing through.

 

2. You can't see the APU unless you open up those big access panels (doors 10 & 11 LH and RH off the top of my head). You can't see much down the intake because of the mesh. Don't look down the exhaust one if it is running; It will make your face go red.

 

Kirk

[patricksparks]

5 hours ago, Kirk said:

[Blimey - I've looked a so many Harrier gear bays but when it comes to finding a particular pic online, can't find a thing.]

 

Again, in reverse order:

1. NO. Your arrows are pointing at the reinforcement of the section of the main intake where it is rapidly coming to the knife edge I talked about earlier. The boundary air ducts are at the top of the picture forward and outboard of that cross web. The left hand duct (right hand of the picture) is almost total obscured by all those hydraulic jacks & links but the right had one is pretty clear; row of rivets down each edge, bit of green primer showing through.

 

2. You can't see the APU unless you open up those big access panels (doors 10 & 11 LH and RH off the top of my head). You can't see much down the intake because of the mesh. Don't look down the exhaust one if it is running; It will make your face go red.

 

Kirk

Got it now, thank you, haven't done a whole lot of research on the Harrier, just alot of google photo recon and help from all the people on this site(THANK YOU). Wanted to try and turn this giant mess into something kind of decent looking, it's such an impressive mass of plastic !!!!

PAT

[patricksparks]

Added the auxilary air intakes located on the turtle deck at the back of the canopy. Thank you Kirk for explaining the details of the ducts, I never realized that the vertical panel lines inside the intake trunks are actually the doors for these intakes, learn something new every day ! Had to sand all the detail off the deck as the shapes molded onto it are all wrong in shape and I will have to make some reward facing "scoops" to go over the 2 holes that I added towards the rear of the deck, looking at photos I could see that they are there on american AV-8Bs also the are 2 round cover plates I need to add between the aux intakes and the rear vent scoops.