Any photographic evidence of Red 10 - Me 262 B1a/U1?

[mahernandez]

Is there any photographic evidence of this particular Me 262? I swear I've seen it somewhere and recently too. Some "expert" at that madness site claims that one is a work of fiction.

 

Mark H.

[johng]

There just might be photos somewhere but I have never found them. All that is known for sure is that this plane was taken to England after the war and was scrapped in 1946.

[Hans]

Mark,

 

The french book "Chasseurs de de nuit de la Luftwaffe" has a photo of this particular aircraft, though it is not the best quality. It shows the Messerschmitt with a scribble pattern on both the fuselage and the wings. The serial on the tail is 1116??.

 

I think I have more info on this aircraft, but I have to do some digging.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Hans

[Radub]

Plenty of info.

See my post here http://z3.invisionfree.com/readersforum/in...showtopic=12198

in replay to this http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/axi...ver/tmc262b.htm

Radu

[LSP_Ray]

Plenty of info.

See my post here http://z3.invisionfree.com/readersforum/in...showtopic=12198

in replay to this http://www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/axi...ver/tmc262b.htm

Radu

Don't suppose you could cut-and-paste that reply? I don't belong to MM and it won't let me in.

[Radub]

I said this:

 

Hi Tom,

I like your model of the 262, very nicely done.

I have a couple of questions if you do not mind.

 

You said "The kit provides “Red 10" and “Red 11,” both of which are completely spurious, and further claims that “Red 10" is the airplane flown by “Ltn. Kurta Weltera,” with the other being the aircraft allegedly flown by someone I never heard of. "

"Red 10" W.Nr 110635 is one of the aircraft captured by the British. On page 462 of "Me262 Volume 3" by J. Richard Smith and Eddie J. Clark, there are photos showing the aircraft, the red number 10, the serial number, as well as Oblt. Kurt Welter and your friend Lt. Georg Czypionka assiting a RAF pilot in the cockpit. A profile of this aircraft appears on page 463 of the same book.

On page 59 of Model Art Special 367 "Messerschmitt Me262" there is a photo of "Red 10" with British roundels.

Please do not take this the wrong way, but "Red 10" is not at all spurious. The only problem I can see with that decal sheet is that the "0" in "10" is a tad too wide and squarish. "Red 10" was also included in the Dragon and Heller kits.

BTW "Ltn. Kurta Weltera" is actually the Czech spelling of "of Kurt Welter" It is evident that Trumpeter wre inspired by a Czech language book where the line read something like "the aircraft of Kurt Welter".

 

"Red 12" had solid upperwing camouflage. There is a photo on page 144 of "Scale Aviation Modeller" (Volume 1 issue 3) that shows the aircraft from behind (wearing British roundels). In this photo it is evident that the upper camouflage is solid.

Also, the "nose" of the right engine pod was a replacement taken from another aircraft and is painted RLM76 with a strip of dark colour at the top (or may be natural metal). (see page 468 of the Creek and Smith book mentioned above).

 

Regards,

Radu

[D Bellis]

Oh boy! Gotta be TC. He wrote a piece on nightfighter '262s a few years ago that was in Aviation History, then argued against the information he himself wrote in his own article on the HS forum.

 

Yeah, I got heartily flamed there by him for questioning his rationale (or lack there of). Haven't posted on HS since, and cancelled my AH subscription because I don't want to read articles written by that kind of person.

 

Also, the people that buy his bag of BS can not be swayed to the truth, either.

 

Best bet might be to forget this particular chucklehead exists and move on.

 

D

[skyhawk486]

This was the only "10" I could find.

[Ads]

Yes and i belittled tc just for fun as well!

 

I suppose his "personal Friend " has some satellite pictures taken at the time that he burnt onto CD-r in 1945 onhis mac air book?(while he was on hiswifi connection at ztarbucks)

 

 

BLLLLAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!

 

Why does he have to pretent he is the most respected plastic toucher on the planet?

Edited February 7, 2008 by LSP_Dave
Edited for inappropriate content

[alaninaustria]

Why does he have to pretent he is the most respected plastic toucher on the planet?

....because somebody maybe touched him in the wrong places when he was younger?

....This guy is one of the biggest losers I have ever heard of....

Cheers,

Alan

[mahernandez]

Thanks all. After reading that POS article of TC's own opinions I just had to put the question to our own group of "experts". We probably have the smartest group of LSPers here! I did find 2 photos tonight of "Red 10". The Model Art Special No 367 Messerschmitt Me 262 on p. 59 and the AJ Press Aircraft Monograph #9 Me 262 Schwalbe Pt. 2 have the same photo as shown on this site of the right front profile. Also in the Model Art book on p.150 shows the left rear quarter view of Red 10. The flaps are down and you can see the squiggle on the top of the wings.

 

Mark H.

[David E Brown]

Gents,

 

There is a fair number of photographs of Red 10 (WNr.110635) though as far as I can tell only a handful have been published. There are enough though to ascertain that its camouflage scheme that was probably a field / unit modification of the original scheme, as were the other B’s with 10./NJG 11. Indeed, no two of the unit's Me 262 Bs wore the same camouflage scheme / colours, and one must think that perhaps the RLM was also involved possibly evaluating the effectiveness of the various patterns and colours.

 

This aircraft was initially built as a standard single-seat A-1a at Leipheim, and probably completed in mid-January 1945. It was then forwarded to the Deutsche Lufthansa workshops at Staaken for conversion to a twin-seater. The first acceptance flight following conversion was made by Fw. Poppe of the DLH on 17 February 1945. He may have also flown it to Schleswig-Jägel on the same date. It is also recorded as being flown by Poller of the DLH at Staaken on 17 March 1945 for 27 minutes. It was then accepted by 10./NJG 11 on 30 March 1945.

 

I have a B&V document from September 1944 that records the minutes of a meeting about the Me 262 B conversion and it is stated that the aircraft were to be finished in uppersurface colours of 81 and 82. If memory serves, undersides were to be finished in 65, not 76. The extant photos of it following capture in May 1945 reveal very light-coloured uppersurfaces (fuselage and wings), that most probably was a lightened version of 76. A scattered wavy pattern of a darker colour is noticeable on the wings and fuselage uppersurfaces (excepting the tailplane) that is thought to be 83 (dunkelgrün). This colour would offer some modest concealment when on the ground. Colours 81 (braunviolet) and 82 (hellgrün) cannot be ruled out though perhaps less likely for the latter. The tail has a different pattern that I think could be a lighter application of 76 allowing patches of the original 81/82 scheme to poke through. Undersides were painted overall black. The aircraft’s werknummer was applied to both sides of the fin, above the horizontal stabilizers.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[bdthoresen]

QUOTE

Why does he have to pretent he is the most respected plastic toucher on the planet?

 

....because somebody maybe touched him in the wrong places when he was younger?

....This guy is one of the biggest losers I have ever heard of....

Cheers,

 

 

 

PURE COMEDY FRIGGIN' GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

THOR, wiping coffee off his monitor.....

[Michel borderline Beekveld]

Radu B,

 

 

I just like your style.

 

 

And this TC being the greatest loser?

 

Well, i do seem to remember a guy on the HS forum that took even more flak.

 

Let's just call him Kurta Plummera. Still miss him.

 

Kinda liked the guy. But he was grilled so hard, that it left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

That's what i like about Radu's answer. He corrects, but doesn't break anything.

 

 

 

MBB