brahman104

It's just so cool to see this come together. What you guys are able to create using CAD and 3D printing is astounding, and here I am barely able to cut a square shim out of styrene sheet.
 
 
 
Matt

Nothing like pressure.    I hope the folks who are enthusiastically watching as a 1/18 scale P-51B gets 3D printed before their very eyes (an exciting project in anybody's book IMO) first are not disappointed - for I do not have the crafting skills that some of the absolute geniuses on LSP have.  It's just awesome.   And second - I hope you have patience.  Unless I treat this as a full time job, it is going to take alot of time.  Time as measured in months if not years.  And of course we do not treat our hobby as a full time job.  This process is so involved.   Please be patient and don't lose interest.  There are very exciting things coming.  Just not very quickly.

great job Iain, we know there is an A26 in that kit somewhere, it just takes a genius to wring it out..
 
these are from Aircorps Library if it helps
 

 

 

 
Good luck
 
Peter

OK - Fuselage cross section - the plan:
 
Lower section - radius from underside to lower side - I think the plastic is thick enough to allow some mechanical re-shaping using the sanding bar Cut the top section - between the cockpit and rear station - away following a horizontal line a little below the start of the radius section Remove the remaining section of upper radius for the side sections Sides/top radius. Having the internal bulkheads in my hands has persuaded me that there should be enough internal strength in these to allow me to bend the fuselage sides in and bond to those bulkheads, after their shapes have been altered Once sides have the correct profile and joints with internal sections have fully dried, add styrene strips to the fuselage sides to replace the removed curved profile section Refit fuselage top section - and re-profile the radius from the upper section to the sides with the sanding bar This should also pull in the rear of the cockpit sills so that they are now parallel when viewed from above  
All theoretical at the moment - but scalpels are poised to make the relevant cuts - and I'll document with photos as I go... 
 
In other news, I suspect the fuselage is a little too 'bulged' in plan view aft of the rear compartment - need to confirm that. If so, some casting resin will be poured inside to give me something to sand into and re-profile.
 
If I can get the external fuselage shapes right I'll be really happy - and the cockpit/rear station/bomb bay areas can be detailed/painted afterwards as it looks like there will be sufficient access.
 
In addition, Jennings Heilig posted this really useful piece over on Hyperscale with regard to the ICM nose part - including a Douglas cross section drawing for station 0.00 - which ties in beautifully with what I discovered over the weekend - and gives the correct profile where the nose attaches on the full size airframe: https://www.hyperscale.com/2022/b26knosejh_1.htm
 
Blue skies,
 
Iain
 
 
 
 
 
 

Playing with the internal bulkheads I had a eureka moment - back to that later.
 
The bulkheads are generally well detailed - some of it made up, but most of it actually fairly presentable:
 

 
Nose gear bay - a little shallow, but will probably get away with using it more, or less, as is...
 

 
Have left the nose leg off and worry about that later.
 
Section of starboard cockpit above sill removed from the fueslage moulding and bonded to the canopy. Both main canopy sections also bonded:
 

 
And the main glazings ready to make moulds, to make resin copies for re-shaping as patterns.
 

 
Pity the shapes are all out because they are, otherwise, well moulded and appear to fit the kit fuselage very well!
 

 
That's it for now - putting away whilst I work on something a lot simpler - but I do now have a plan...
 
Iain

So, now we get to the 'importanter' bits - nose/kit - kit/nose...
 

 
There's an Invader lurking in there - somewhere!
 

 
In side profile - almost an exact match!
 
The HB kit plastic curves up a little ahead of the nose-wheel bay - which should be flat - and I may knock 2 - 3% of the height of the printed nose in a subsequent print.
 
But actually quite surprised how close it is!
 

 
And in plan view the width is almost spot on:
 

 
Which tends to support the kit designers use of some reasonable 3-view drawings for plan and side elevation - but appear to have 'made-up' a lot of the transitions in-between!
 
Talking of which - from another angle we can see the differences in cross section.
 
At present I actually think the 'truth' may be somewhere between the two - and there's more than enough material (both 3D print and kit plastic) to be able to re-shape as required.
 

 

 
And, if you extrapolate the 3D printed nose back it actually ties in well with the kit fuselage further back:
 

 
All, actually, quite positive! 
 
It just might not look too positive - yet.
 
So - I think the next step is to build up the kit internal bulkheads and floors - I'd like to get the fuselage stable/solid enough to start on some cross-sectional re-profiling.
 
Nimrod one zero departing the circuit to the North West, will report on rejoin...
 
Iain
 
 

Spectacular blending of old and new scratch techniques in this one.  Always wonderful to follow your builds Peter. Another masterpiece in the making
 
 
 
Matt 

Thanks Paul! I think if I was at this every day I might potentially lose a bit of interest, but as real life only lets me get to the bench in a limited capacity I'm generally chomping at the bit to get into it again. Having said that, I still look at the completely bare right wing and sigh!!!!! As you know, this whole build has been an experiment, with no results guaranteed!!! All part of the fun though  
 
Craig
 
 

Excellent update, Craig!
 
Kev

Great metalwork Craig, and congrats to your new puppy.
Cheers
Martin 

Looks superb Craig. 
 
Perhaps you could try some gentle, localised heat using a blow torch of some kind to get the colouration?
 
 

crazy work
 
but great job

Wow that looks cool!  I thought the old version looked good, but this new one looks phenomenal! 
 
And congrats on the adorable new puppy. He looks like he'll be a great companion for years to come
 
 
Matt 

This is phenomenal work Craig!
 
Congratulations on the new pup too! He looks great also!
 
I admire your tenacity in keeping going with this build and the methods you are employing to get it completed. I particularly like that you are willing to experiment with different materials. Duly noted on the steel plate...
 
Thanks once again!
 
Kind regards,
Paul

Wonderful engine nacelles Craig!  And with a new material!  The contrast looks good - wish I had done something like that on the Mustang engine cowl behind the exhausts, rather than painting it.  You have to be very pleased that the steel worked for you - another worry addressed.  I have so many worries on my own project I sometimes wonder why I am doing it!

Fabulous work Craig - and puppy looks gorgeous! 
 
Iain

Thanks Matt! Yep, it's definitely an acquired skill and as long as you're not in a hurry, it's a pretty good way to go. 
 
Been absent for a while with the addition of a new puppy, just to add more complexity and less free time into our lives .
 
 
He's a 7 month old German short-haired pointer and if he knows what's good for him, he'll stay away from the bench....... He's actually pretty good, and spends approximately 90% of his day upside-down asleep. 
 
That being said, I finally got a bit more time on the B-17 this evening. The "stainless steel" material I'd used around the turbos had always bothered me...... It was a crafting material that was a kind of malleable plastic, and just didn't look right. I had to do something about it, but what? I thought about experimenting with trying to darken some litho sheet. I vaguely remember something about boiling aluminium foil with egg shells, but that seemed like a pretty inconsistent approach. I know the real panels were stainless steel to withstand the heat, but actual stainless is an incredibly hard material to work with (nowhere near as friendly as litho and not to mention can't be annealed to make it softer for compound curves), so what to do? 
 
I eventually came across some very thin stainless steel sheet (read heavy "foil") from Hobby Tools Australia https://www.hobbytools.com.au/k-s-stainless-steel-foil-roll-300mm-x-760mm-x-05mm/ and decided to give it a go. When I got it the first thing that was readily apparent is that it couldn't be scored and snapped like litho, so I then had to some some jeweller's shears in order to cut it. Cutting very small diameter inside curves is an absolute nightmare (like around the back end of the turbos, but can be achieved with great care. 
 
To remind you of what I had:
Wow it really does look horrible doesn't it?
 
Not even knowing if contact cement was going to be enough to hold each piece against the slight compound curves, I did what I always do, threw caution to the wind and jumped straight in..... Initial tests with a rivet wheel showed the the stainless actually took and held rivet detail exceptionally well, and despite my fears, there was actually just enough "flex" to coax the panels I needed into shape. Thankfully the contact cement worked perfectly. 
 
And so after a few hours, I actually had it looking much, much, more B-17 like  
 
 
The photos don't really do it justice, but the colour change is noticeable, as is the sharpness of the rivets as opposed to the much softer litho plate..... Can't say I'd want to do a cowling in it, but for the (mostly) flattish panels around the turbos, I am super happy!
 
 
 
 
Not too bad at all! And it was even malleable/thin enough to carefully fold over the lip and into the exhaust/supercharger recesses with a bit of gentle tapping from a hammer. 
 
Compare the inboard nacelle to the outboard...... absolute chalk and cheese!
 
It was of course, only after I stuck the panels down it occured to me that I could have got some lovely heat staining by using the blow torch, but there's no way I'm pulling those new panels off to try it!
 
The good news is that I feel confident enough with it now to try and do the area just aft of the firewalls with it too. Definitely much more work than litho, but well and truely worth it!
 
Cheers, 
 
Craig 
 
 
 
 

Thanks Matt! Yep, it's definitely an acquired skill and as long as you're not in a hurry, it's a pretty good way to go. 
 
Been absent for a while with the addition of a new puppy, just to add more complexity and less free time into our lives .
 
 
He's a 7 month old German short-haired pointer and if he knows what's good for him, he'll stay away from the bench....... He's actually pretty good, and spends approximately 90% of his day upside-down asleep. 
 
That being said, I finally got a bit more time on the B-17 this evening. The "stainless steel" material I'd used around the turbos had always bothered me...... It was a crafting material that was a kind of malleable plastic, and just didn't look right. I had to do something about it, but what? I thought about experimenting with trying to darken some litho sheet. I vaguely remember something about boiling aluminium foil with egg shells, but that seemed like a pretty inconsistent approach. I know the real panels were stainless steel to withstand the heat, but actual stainless is an incredibly hard material to work with (nowhere near as friendly as litho and not to mention can't be annealed to make it softer for compound curves), so what to do? 
 
I eventually came across some very thin stainless steel sheet (read heavy "foil") from Hobby Tools Australia https://www.hobbytools.com.au/k-s-stainless-steel-foil-roll-300mm-x-760mm-x-05mm/ and decided to give it a go. When I got it the first thing that was readily apparent is that it couldn't be scored and snapped like litho, so I then had to some some jeweller's shears in order to cut it. Cutting very small diameter inside curves is an absolute nightmare (like around the back end of the turbos, but can be achieved with great care. 
 
To remind you of what I had:
Wow it really does look horrible doesn't it?
 
Not even knowing if contact cement was going to be enough to hold each piece against the slight compound curves, I did what I always do, threw caution to the wind and jumped straight in..... Initial tests with a rivet wheel showed the the stainless actually took and held rivet detail exceptionally well, and despite my fears, there was actually just enough "flex" to coax the panels I needed into shape. Thankfully the contact cement worked perfectly. 
 
And so after a few hours, I actually had it looking much, much, more B-17 like  
 
 
The photos don't really do it justice, but the colour change is noticeable, as is the sharpness of the rivets as opposed to the much softer litho plate..... Can't say I'd want to do a cowling in it, but for the (mostly) flattish panels around the turbos, I am super happy!
 
 
 
 
Not too bad at all! And it was even malleable/thin enough to carefully fold over the lip and into the exhaust/supercharger recesses with a bit of gentle tapping from a hammer. 
 
Compare the inboard nacelle to the outboard...... absolute chalk and cheese!
 
It was of course, only after I stuck the panels down it occured to me that I could have got some lovely heat staining by using the blow torch, but there's no way I'm pulling those new panels off to try it!
 
The good news is that I feel confident enough with it now to try and do the area just aft of the firewalls with it too. Definitely much more work than litho, but well and truely worth it!
 
Cheers, 
 
Craig 
 
 
 
 

Thanks Kev!
 
 
I hope you've plenty of popcorn Jay  
 
 
Thanks Matt! It's good to be back at it.
 
 
Thanks Pat! Would love to get this one over the line this year...... we'll see how we go!
 
 
Thanks very much Tom! Always appreciate you stopping by!  
 
Well there's little else to do but settle in to the long hard slog that is skinning the wings. And boy oh boy do the undersides have a lot of rivets!!!!
 
This next effort focuses on the inboard fuel tank access panel, with a blistered fairing for the fuel boost pump. Many a conversation with my late friend Terry (TKB), centred around the presence (or absence) of boost pump fairings for the outboard cells, such as on the E model and later. After scouring many photos we concluded that there wasn't, and so the outer one has been deleted. 
 
I used the spare kit I have to shape the blister....
 
 
The panel has a complex rivet pattern on the border, so I decided to make the panel up from 3 separate pieces. Disregard the initial rivetting around the outside.....
 
 
And finally the panel is in place.....
 
 
Not entirely terrible, although I think there is a hinge on the front of the blister I'll have to add, and there may be a little drain hole as well..... 
Sooooo many rivets!!!!!
 
Onto the outboard tank access panels next, and they have their own challenges......  Thanks as always for looking in!
 
Craig
 

Thanks Ron! Yep, cyclones and all it's not a bad part of the world to live  
 
 
Yes Sir!!!! 
 
 
Thanks Zac! Just a tad warmer than the Manawatu  
 
 
Thanks Tom! If you can still turn out the masterpieces you do on a kitchen table, then I have absolutely no excuse!!!!
 
 
Thanks Jim! Yep definitely enjoying the new space!
 
Well the Fort has officially gone through her second Category 3 Cyclone and survived  (first one was in a shipping container on a boat bobbing around just off NZ). A couple of weeks ago, Townsville was subjected to a fairly rare one (not sure that's true any more these days!), but it was glad to see the house (which is the best part of 90-100 years old) weathered the storm easily. The only casualties being a few broken palm fronds! 
 
The bench setup has advanced enough for my to finally resume work on the B-17. After such a long break I'd almost forgotten the process of making the panels (and I had to find and organise all my tools in the first place!) but I was able to make some very slow progress.
 
Firstly though, I thought I'd show you some of my custom tool holders I made using my table saw and laser cutter. A fun exercise, but in the heat of a North Queensland summer, the laser was struggling a little bit  
 
 
 
 
 
The hardest part is trying to work out what tools you want where...... sometimes you only figure it out by doing, but I'm pretty happy with the overall result. I'll add to them in time with some drawers, but the B-17 was calling......
 
As I said, the hardest thing was trying to work out where I as at and how to do the panels again. Annoyingly, a lot of my reference photos for the underside of the wing had disappeared off my iPad (apple does weird things sometimes!) but I started with the flap first as it was at the rear most part of the wing. At this point, this was the single biggest piece of skinning on the whole project, and I was worried that I'd stuff up the alignment when applying it, but it all worked out quite well. 
 
 
Once I got back in the groove it was the next panel, rear of the spar. A lot of access panels which took a long time to cut out. I have no idea how Peter (Airscale) does it so quickly!!!!!!!!!!! 
 
 
The flap set a record as the biggest panel on the plane, and then this one knocked it out of the park!!!! I think it took me about 5 hours to do. So many rivets, so many more to come!!!! Just remember each rivet is done 3 times too.......
 
At last my friends, she is back where she belongs..... on the bench!
 
Cheers,
 
Craig
 
 
 

A bit more progress on the outer nacelle. Some of the panels are pretty tricky to discern the shape, but I'd say I'm reasonably close...... The top big access cover is not stuck on yet; still needs details and some adjustment to get it to fit nicely.
 
Lots and lots of little tricky panels, only another 3 engines to go! At least the RH wing *should* be easier as I'll know the sizes and shapes of the panels......
 
 
 
 
The wing is starting to look more complete now!
 
 
Many, many more hours to get yet on this wing alone, but it is somewhat therapeutic!
 
Cheers,
 
Craig
 
 
 

Thanks Matt! Yep, it's definitely an acquired skill and as long as you're not in a hurry, it's a pretty good way to go. 
 
Been absent for a while with the addition of a new puppy, just to add more complexity and less free time into our lives .
 
 
He's a 7 month old German short-haired pointer and if he knows what's good for him, he'll stay away from the bench....... He's actually pretty good, and spends approximately 90% of his day upside-down asleep. 
 
That being said, I finally got a bit more time on the B-17 this evening. The "stainless steel" material I'd used around the turbos had always bothered me...... It was a crafting material that was a kind of malleable plastic, and just didn't look right. I had to do something about it, but what? I thought about experimenting with trying to darken some litho sheet. I vaguely remember something about boiling aluminium foil with egg shells, but that seemed like a pretty inconsistent approach. I know the real panels were stainless steel to withstand the heat, but actual stainless is an incredibly hard material to work with (nowhere near as friendly as litho and not to mention can't be annealed to make it softer for compound curves), so what to do? 
 
I eventually came across some very thin stainless steel sheet (read heavy "foil") from Hobby Tools Australia https://www.hobbytools.com.au/k-s-stainless-steel-foil-roll-300mm-x-760mm-x-05mm/ and decided to give it a go. When I got it the first thing that was readily apparent is that it couldn't be scored and snapped like litho, so I then had to some some jeweller's shears in order to cut it. Cutting very small diameter inside curves is an absolute nightmare (like around the back end of the turbos, but can be achieved with great care. 
 
To remind you of what I had:
Wow it really does look horrible doesn't it?
 
Not even knowing if contact cement was going to be enough to hold each piece against the slight compound curves, I did what I always do, threw caution to the wind and jumped straight in..... Initial tests with a rivet wheel showed the the stainless actually took and held rivet detail exceptionally well, and despite my fears, there was actually just enough "flex" to coax the panels I needed into shape. Thankfully the contact cement worked perfectly. 
 
And so after a few hours, I actually had it looking much, much, more B-17 like  
 
 
The photos don't really do it justice, but the colour change is noticeable, as is the sharpness of the rivets as opposed to the much softer litho plate..... Can't say I'd want to do a cowling in it, but for the (mostly) flattish panels around the turbos, I am super happy!
 
 
 
 
Not too bad at all! And it was even malleable/thin enough to carefully fold over the lip and into the exhaust/supercharger recesses with a bit of gentle tapping from a hammer. 
 
Compare the inboard nacelle to the outboard...... absolute chalk and cheese!
 
It was of course, only after I stuck the panels down it occured to me that I could have got some lovely heat staining by using the blow torch, but there's no way I'm pulling those new panels off to try it!
 
The good news is that I feel confident enough with it now to try and do the area just aft of the firewalls with it too. Definitely much more work than litho, but well and truely worth it!
 
Cheers, 
 
Craig 
 
 
 
 

Absolutely fascinating to see how you are increasingly incorporating 3D printing into your builds and the effect that has on the progress of your builds. Definitely not taking anything away from the effort it takes to think of the the processes required and the skill it takes to drawing them in CAD, but the way you are taking advantage of the technology for guaranteeing complex angles is pure genius! 
 
It also makes me realise how much I suck at Rhino 
 
So you'll be finished by next week then? 
 
Craig 

Thanks Matt! Yep, it's definitely an acquired skill and as long as you're not in a hurry, it's a pretty good way to go. 
 
Been absent for a while with the addition of a new puppy, just to add more complexity and less free time into our lives .
 
 
He's a 7 month old German short-haired pointer and if he knows what's good for him, he'll stay away from the bench....... He's actually pretty good, and spends approximately 90% of his day upside-down asleep. 
 
That being said, I finally got a bit more time on the B-17 this evening. The "stainless steel" material I'd used around the turbos had always bothered me...... It was a crafting material that was a kind of malleable plastic, and just didn't look right. I had to do something about it, but what? I thought about experimenting with trying to darken some litho sheet. I vaguely remember something about boiling aluminium foil with egg shells, but that seemed like a pretty inconsistent approach. I know the real panels were stainless steel to withstand the heat, but actual stainless is an incredibly hard material to work with (nowhere near as friendly as litho and not to mention can't be annealed to make it softer for compound curves), so what to do? 
 
I eventually came across some very thin stainless steel sheet (read heavy "foil") from Hobby Tools Australia https://www.hobbytools.com.au/k-s-stainless-steel-foil-roll-300mm-x-760mm-x-05mm/ and decided to give it a go. When I got it the first thing that was readily apparent is that it couldn't be scored and snapped like litho, so I then had to some some jeweller's shears in order to cut it. Cutting very small diameter inside curves is an absolute nightmare (like around the back end of the turbos, but can be achieved with great care. 
 
To remind you of what I had:
Wow it really does look horrible doesn't it?
 
Not even knowing if contact cement was going to be enough to hold each piece against the slight compound curves, I did what I always do, threw caution to the wind and jumped straight in..... Initial tests with a rivet wheel showed the the stainless actually took and held rivet detail exceptionally well, and despite my fears, there was actually just enough "flex" to coax the panels I needed into shape. Thankfully the contact cement worked perfectly. 
 
And so after a few hours, I actually had it looking much, much, more B-17 like  
 
 
The photos don't really do it justice, but the colour change is noticeable, as is the sharpness of the rivets as opposed to the much softer litho plate..... Can't say I'd want to do a cowling in it, but for the (mostly) flattish panels around the turbos, I am super happy!
 
 
 
 
Not too bad at all! And it was even malleable/thin enough to carefully fold over the lip and into the exhaust/supercharger recesses with a bit of gentle tapping from a hammer. 
 
Compare the inboard nacelle to the outboard...... absolute chalk and cheese!
 
It was of course, only after I stuck the panels down it occured to me that I could have got some lovely heat staining by using the blow torch, but there's no way I'm pulling those new panels off to try it!
 
The good news is that I feel confident enough with it now to try and do the area just aft of the firewalls with it too. Definitely much more work than litho, but well and truely worth it!
 
Cheers, 
 
Craig 
 
 
 
 

Thanks Matt! Yep, it's definitely an acquired skill and as long as you're not in a hurry, it's a pretty good way to go. 
 
Been absent for a while with the addition of a new puppy, just to add more complexity and less free time into our lives .
 
 
He's a 7 month old German short-haired pointer and if he knows what's good for him, he'll stay away from the bench....... He's actually pretty good, and spends approximately 90% of his day upside-down asleep. 
 
That being said, I finally got a bit more time on the B-17 this evening. The "stainless steel" material I'd used around the turbos had always bothered me...... It was a crafting material that was a kind of malleable plastic, and just didn't look right. I had to do something about it, but what? I thought about experimenting with trying to darken some litho sheet. I vaguely remember something about boiling aluminium foil with egg shells, but that seemed like a pretty inconsistent approach. I know the real panels were stainless steel to withstand the heat, but actual stainless is an incredibly hard material to work with (nowhere near as friendly as litho and not to mention can't be annealed to make it softer for compound curves), so what to do? 
 
I eventually came across some very thin stainless steel sheet (read heavy "foil") from Hobby Tools Australia https://www.hobbytools.com.au/k-s-stainless-steel-foil-roll-300mm-x-760mm-x-05mm/ and decided to give it a go. When I got it the first thing that was readily apparent is that it couldn't be scored and snapped like litho, so I then had to some some jeweller's shears in order to cut it. Cutting very small diameter inside curves is an absolute nightmare (like around the back end of the turbos, but can be achieved with great care. 
 
To remind you of what I had:
Wow it really does look horrible doesn't it?
 
Not even knowing if contact cement was going to be enough to hold each piece against the slight compound curves, I did what I always do, threw caution to the wind and jumped straight in..... Initial tests with a rivet wheel showed the the stainless actually took and held rivet detail exceptionally well, and despite my fears, there was actually just enough "flex" to coax the panels I needed into shape. Thankfully the contact cement worked perfectly. 
 
And so after a few hours, I actually had it looking much, much, more B-17 like  
 
 
The photos don't really do it justice, but the colour change is noticeable, as is the sharpness of the rivets as opposed to the much softer litho plate..... Can't say I'd want to do a cowling in it, but for the (mostly) flattish panels around the turbos, I am super happy!
 
 
 
 
Not too bad at all! And it was even malleable/thin enough to carefully fold over the lip and into the exhaust/supercharger recesses with a bit of gentle tapping from a hammer. 
 
Compare the inboard nacelle to the outboard...... absolute chalk and cheese!
 
It was of course, only after I stuck the panels down it occured to me that I could have got some lovely heat staining by using the blow torch, but there's no way I'm pulling those new panels off to try it!
 
The good news is that I feel confident enough with it now to try and do the area just aft of the firewalls with it too. Definitely much more work than litho, but well and truely worth it!
 
Cheers, 
 
Craig