CANicoll Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Folks: I've done some looking around and I can't seem to find definitive measurements for the WWII Invasion stripes for a P-51 Mustang. Wikipedia says this: The stripes were five alternating black and white stripes. On single-engine aircraft each stripe was to be 18 inches (46 cm) wide, placed 6 inches (15 cm) inboard of the roundels on the wings and 18 inches (46 cm) forward of the leading edge of the tailplane on the fuselage. National markings and serial number were not to be obliterated. I figure someone here has a quick answer...so what do you think? I thought the wing stripes were a different width than the fuselage stripes. Thanks in advance! Chris BiggTim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANicoll Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 Barracuda says they are 18" wide on the wing (9/16 in or 14.3mm), the black band is 15" (15/32 in or 11.9mm) on the elevator. On the Revell decal sheet the fuselage and wing band decals ( the black decals ) are both 14.3mm - so they are the same size. Is that correct? Thanks Chris BiggTim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggTim Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 That looks about right to me, though I've lots of variations from plane to plane because of different guys painting them in the field. Some of them look like they were painted by a drunk snake. SapperSix and CANicoll 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quang Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 For once, I'd trust the kit instructions. BiggTim and CANicoll 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANicoll Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 I've seen some of the WWII Pictures of the stripes being applied and oh, yeah, someone was in a hurry! By my calculations, the full width is 71.5mm for each side of the wing. I just masked the bottom of the wing for the white area. Fuselage is next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 I use 18/32 for 1/32 scale a/c Chris. I am not aware of any difference in the width of either white or black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMaben Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 There were 'probably' dimensions called out but not 'necessarily' strictly complied with. These 2 images show how they didn't match up with moving surfaces (gear doors , flaps). Note how one has small black stripes on the outer white stripes. Neither have stripes across the fuselage bottoms, obviously painted without lifting the tail. hth Gazzas, BiggTim, coogrfan and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANicoll Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 Mike - as always, thanks for the pictures and JohnB, that is exactly what I used so we are good to go. Mike - what I really like about your pictures is two things: another view of the various streaks on the bottom of the aircraft, and I noted how shiny the drop tanks are compared to the rest of the aircraft. The bottom aircraft seems to have had white stripes on the outside of the black stripes on the elevators, too. Interesting! I also noted on the bottom aircraft that the top of the left side landing gear door is still silver, not black and the bottom of the left landing gear does not appear to have a white stripe at the bottom. BiggTim and MikeMaben 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhorina Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 The black stripes on the tail planes are some of the original markings applied to bare metal P-51s. The black stripe was also applied to the tail fin and rudder. Applied because the tail looked similar to 109 tails. These markings had nothing to do with the 'Invasion' markings Mike Horina MikeMaben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggTim Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) The bottom aircraft seems to have had white stripes on the outside of the black stripes on the elevators, too. I'm thinking that might be just the contrast between the black stripe, then NM, then darker wingtip that makes the NM band between look white. I think the wingtip maybe was oxidized paint, so it appears darker? The white stripes on the main wings are noticeably brighter than the spot you're referring to on the elevators. I'm no expert, but that's how it looks to me. Edit: the main tips look the same, so I think they were painted a darker color. Tim Edited May 25, 2018 by BiggTim CANicoll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefenders Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Assault cow. MikeMaben, coogrfan, Landrotten Highlander and 6 others 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMaben Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Mike - what I really like about your pictures is two things: Yep, they're very helpful pix. I took 'em myself !!! CANicoll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringleheim Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 If you look closely at period photos of invasion stripes, you will see that your perfectly straight and aligned stripes made with masking tape are fairly inaccurate! At least some of them were pretty sloppy, slap-dash affairs with fields of gray between stripes and what not. And yet I can't bring myself to replicate "accurate" but sloppy stripes! CANicoll and coogrfan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quang Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) Ponder this: On June 1st 1944, Allied Command was still doing test with the stripes. On June 4th, the stripes were on every a/c of the invasion fleet ready for D-Day originally June 5th. That leaves us a few hours notice to apply the stripes. Add to that the misinterpretation of orders, the personal interpretation of every ground crew and the material – or lack of – at hand. So sloppiness was nothing short of obligatory. And as previous poster ringleheim suggested, controlled sloppiness is very hard to reproduce. Edited May 26, 2018 by quang CANicoll, MikeMaben and coogrfan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANicoll Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) If you look closely at period photos of invasion stripes, you will see that your perfectly straight and aligned stripes made with masking tape are fairly inaccurate! At least some of them were pretty sloppy, slap-dash affairs with fields of gray between stripes and what not. And yet I can't bring myself to replicate "accurate" but sloppy stripes! Depends on which aircraft you are looking at, actually. Here are a few links to check out. In the first the P-38 looks pretty sloppy, but the Mustangs and Mauraders look pretty good. Here, the P-61 stripes look pretty nice. NOW, up close do we see the brush marks and the overlapping paint? Yeah probably. In 1/32 scale what would that look like? Even if there was 1/2 overlap, in 1/32 scale that is .0156 of an inch. So VERY hard to replicate. I think more likely is that the white and the black had some 'see through where the paint didn't completely cover. Ponder this: On June 1st 1944, Allied Command was still doing test with the stripes. On June 4th, the stripes were on every a/c of the invasion fleet ready for D-Day originally June 5th. That leaves us a few hours notice to apply the stripes. Add to that the misinterpretation of orders, the personal interpretation of every ground crew and the material – or lack of – at hand. So sloppiness was nothing short of obligatory. And as previous poster ringleheim suggested, controlled sloppiness is very hard to reproduce. I've often wondered about this - how carefully were the stripes REALLY applied? I'm sure unit by unit this varied significantly. So this is where for a specific aircraft I rely heavily on period pictures such as this one: Now, easy enough to argue that since these planes were in a photo shoot (and as I pointed out separately, look how utterly clean each aircraft is - not even a hint of exhaust staining - I'm going with the assumption this was a staged photograph) it is entirely possible the stripes were fairly carefully applied to begin with or cleaned up afterwards (esp since this picture was taken long after D-Day). Good discussion! Chris Edited May 26, 2018 by CANicoll MikeMaben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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