Col. Gregory "Pappy" Boyington

[John1]

13 hours ago, D Bellis said:

While all the other POWs were emaciated when released, Boyington came out with a fat belly...

https://www.ww2online.org/image/gregory-pappy-boyington-after-his-liberation-omori-prison-camp-japan-1945

 

D

Brutal post.   The guy behind Boyingon doesn’t look emaciated either.  So this is what it comes to?  Body shaming American POW’s?    Plenty of diseases manifest themselves with distended abdomens.   What exactly are you implying?   

[TBC]

To Tell The Truth

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=greg+boyington+on+game+show#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:59015324,vid:oV3SAAtb3XY,st:0

[JeepsGunsTanks]

6 hours ago, John1 said:

Pretty harsh, compassionless opinion on a guy who honorably served his nation, was a combat ace and spent years in a Japanese prison camp. If I went through all that, I might be struggling with some demons as well.    We’ve got thousands of vets from our recent conflict who arguably saw much less duress than Boyington seeking treatment for PTSD and yet this guy is nothing more than a drunken a-hole?   Maybe your dad had a bit of jealousy going on here? Sorry but your post really rubs me the wrong way.   Hopefully the next time we have an all-out war, we’ll still have a few of those a-holes around to fight for us.  

 

You would prefer to excuse the guy for the good things he did. I would rather see actual good men get more recognition and the real story be told. The truth should be told about the men who did these things. Covering it up does a bigger disservice to history. The truth about people is more critical than myths and sensitive feelings. He was a bad guy before the war even started. He cut out and left his wife in debt to join the Flying Tigers. 

 

Sanitized history is not real history. 

 

(fixed wrong quote)

Edited December 8, 2023 by JeepsGunsTanks

[JeepsGunsTanks]

18 minutes ago, John1 said:

Brutal post.   The guy behind Boyingon doesn’t look emaciated either.  So this is what it comes to?  Body shaming American POW’s?    Plenty of diseases manifest themselves with distended abdomens.   What exactly are you implying?   

 

There were men there who reported that they asked Boyington to give up some food to sick men because Greg had a deal going with the cook to get extra food for himself. Greg refused. This stuff is documented in many, many places. Maybe you should read up a little on the man so you at least know the subject matter.   

Edited December 8, 2023 by JeepsGunsTanks

[cbk57]

I think many of us think of Boyington as the lovable tough guy fictional character we saw on television.  That certainly colored my first impressions, like so many of us he was a flawed human being, his life just happened to be a lot more interesting to other parties than mine has been, as such he got a book and a TV series.  I do not aspire to ever be as interesting though as Gregory Boyington.  I do not elevate, nor do I reduce him for his good or bad qualities.  Robert Conrad may have been a better Gregory Boyington, than Gregory Boyington was.  However, he does help bring us back to a time when young people were doing great things, some were better some worse.  Many better than any of us never told their story because they died without the chance.  Some died heroes, some disease, accident or whatever the cause, but none the less Boyington is worthy of his story for better and worse.

[JeepsGunsTanks]

3 minutes ago, cbk57 said:

I think many of us think of Boyington as the lovable tough guy fictional character we saw on television.  That certainly colored my first impressions, like so many of us he was a flawed human being, his life just happened to be a lot more interesting to other parties than mine has been, as such he got a book and a TV series.  I do not aspire to ever be as interesting though as Gregory Boyington.  I do not elevate, nor do I reduce him for his good or bad qualities.  Robert Conrad may have been a better Gregory Boyington, than Gregory Boyington was.  However, he does help bring us back to a time when young people were doing great things, some were better some worse.  Many better than any of us never told their story because they died without the chance.  Some died heroes, some disease, accident or whatever the cause, but none the less Boyington is worthy of his story for better and worse.

 

What's kind of funny is Conrad had a horrible rep for being a jerk as well, and stuntmen hated him, because he would actually punch them! 

 

I don't hate Boyington at all, I view him for what he was, a very flawed but interesting man.  My bigger point was, that men like Marion Carl, men who should be better known, are not, while the legend, and not the truth about Boyington lives on. 

[cbk57]

Just now, JeepsGunsTanks said:

 

What's kind of funny is Conrad had a horrible rep for being a jerk as well, and stuntmen hated him, because he would actually punch them! 

 

I don't hate Boyington at all, I view him for what he was, a very flawed but interesting man.  My bigger point was, that men like Marion Carl, men who should be better known, are not, while the legend, and not the truth about Boyington lives on. 

Do you follow the pacific war podcast series?  They did an episode related to Boyington but better yet the episode on the P-38 ace race.  The story of one of the pilots in that series was truly amazing, not Bong.  I did not mean to state you or anyone else vilified Boyington.  I just saw there was a debate of his qualities, however by circumstance we know who he is, as such we can go down the path where we consider others beyond Boyington.   We might not be having this conversation without him and being reminded of others who might have been more worthy than he.  

[Furie]

I talked a lot with some French pilots from Normandie-Niemen who fought in Russia. 
They were sober by force of things but each air victory gave right to 200g of vodka.
Russian mechanics, who by their trade were not really fighters, were not entitled to vodka.
So they drank glycol, caustic soda, and also hydraulic fluid.

Needless to say, it ended very badly...
For the rest of the nations at war during WW2, absolutely everyone consumed astronomical amounts of methamphetamine, amphetamine (USAAF), Philopon, Hiropon (Japan), methedrine, Pervitin (Luftwaffe) and benzedrine (RAF).
So Greg drinks like a fish a lot from Jack Daniels and Jim Beam.
Is it worse than getting an amphetamine shoot?
I don’t know, I didn’t go to war like him.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Furie

[D Bellis]

1 hour ago, John1 said:

What exactly are you implying?

 

This, and it is well documented fact - not an implication:

1 hour ago, JeepsGunsTanks said:

 

There were men there who reported that they asked Boyington to give up some food to sick men because Greg had a deal going with the cook to get extra food for himself. Greg refused. This stuff is documented in many, many places. Maybe you should read up a little on the man so you at least know the subject matter.   

 

Boyington was only good at 2 things: Leading men in combat and self-promotion. He was famous for stating "Show me a hero and I'll show you a bum", which is a fair assessment of himself but an insult to actual heroes. 

 

D

[cbk57]

2 hours ago, Furie said:

I talked a lot with some French pilots from Normandie-Niemen who fought in Russia. 
They were sober by force of things but each air victory gave right to 200g of vodka.
Russian mechanics, who by their trade were not really fighters, were not entitled to vodka.
So they drank glycol, caustic soda, and also hydraulic fluid.

Needless to say, it ended very badly...
For the rest of the nations at war during WW2, absolutely everyone consumed astronomical amounts of methamphetamine, amphetamine (USAAF), Philopon, Hiropon (Japan), methedrine, Pervitin (Luftwaffe) and benzedrine (RAF).
So Greg drinks like a fish a lot from Jack Daniels and Jim Beam.
Is it worse than getting an amphetamine shoot?
I don’t know, I didn’t go to war like him.

My wife’s grandfather was in the Royal Navy and worked the sonar system, he used to say they gave them a drug to turn them on and another to turn them off, they were on duty for 24 hours at a time.  Talking the drug was not realy voluntary and they were not told what it was.

[BiggTim]

1 hour ago, cbk57 said:

My wife’s grandfather was in the Royal Navy and worked the sonar system, he used to say they gave them a drug to turn them on and another to turn them off, they were on duty for 24 hours at a time.  Talking the drug was not realy voluntary and they were not told what it was.

I am quite certain it was methamphetamine, too. 

[JeepsGunsTanks]

5 hours ago, cbk57 said:

Do you follow the pacific war podcast series?  They did an episode related to Boyington but better yet the episode on the P-38 ace race.  The story of one of the pilots in that series was truly amazing, not Bong.  I did not mean to state you or anyone else vilified Boyington.  I just saw there was a debate of his qualities, however by circumstance we know who he is, as such we can go down the path where we consider others beyond Boyington.   We might not be having this conversation without him and being reminded of others who might have been more worthy than he.  

 

 

The "unauthorized" one? If so, I have not listened to their one on the Ace Race. The Boyington one was pretty good, if maybe not harsh enough, considering the hate thing one of their guys has for MacArthur. 

 

The Race of Aces book is outstanding, even if it just covers the 5th Air Force guys. 

 

Everyone brings up his overclaiming of kills while a Tiger, so it should be said here he lied and should not be considered the Marine's Top Ace. It's sad the Marines who push honor and integrity will not take a look at Boyington's real war record. He was nothing but trouble, everywhere he served, and you can very much make the case his service was not honorable. 

[JeepsGunsTanks]

4 hours ago, D Bellis said:

 

This, and it is well documented fact - not an implication:

 

Boyington was only good at 2 things: Leading men in combat and self-promotion. He was famous for stating "Show me a hero and I'll show you a bum", which is a fair assessment of himself but an insult to actual heroes. 

 

D

 

 

Maybe Three, he was supposed to be a pretty good boxer, drunk or sober, and four could be, flying, even while drunk.

 

His boxing skills put many of his fellow officers in the hospital on Espiritu Santo.  

[D.B. Andrus]

59 minutes ago, JeepsGunsTanks said:

The Race of Aces book is outstanding, ....

 

 

 Agree, 1000%

[John1]

20 hours ago, JeepsGunsTanks said:

 

You would prefer to excuse the guy for the good things he did. I would rather see actual good men get more recognition and the real story be told. The truth should be told about the men who did these things. Covering it up does a bigger disservice to history. The truth about people is more critical than myths and sensitive feelings. He was a bad guy before the war even started. He cut out and left his wife in debt to join the Flying Tigers. 

 

Sanitized history is not real history. 

 

(fixed wrong quote)

So he's a big fat meanie with a drinking problem who hurt other people's feelings?  I could care less.   He was an amazing warrior who served his country well and sacrificed more than anyone who has decided to judge him after the fact has, including those of us on this forum.   I agree that many other amazing stories never got the attention they should have, Carl being a prime example but that's an issue to take up with the folks in Hollywood.    He lived under a microscope which tended to focus on his flaws.   Who knows, maybe some of those clean-cut all-American heros that you want the world to know more about also had their share of skeletons in the closets as well? 

 

Bottom line is that every one of these guys was a human being, not a comic book character.