Revell 1/32 F-4E (from F-4G kit) 32nd TFS - The paint is on!

[cmayer]

Hey Leon!
Great catch on the small walkway on the upper left intake: I have never noticed that before, and I have looked at these photos many times in the past. You totally have me caught, flat-footed on that discovery.

But, just like Rudy, I did some looking around, and re-looked at photos I already have in my collection...and I think Rudy is absolutely correct: I think the unit applied these small walkways when they received their "new" 1974 E-models; because I can't find any other "factory-new" photo that shows a walkway there (the only factory walkway I have ever seen is the "trapezoidal" walkway on the main wing root).

And, like Rudy, I found photos of their "previous" batch of 1968-69 E-models, both before and after they received their slat modifications, and there are clear photos of those aircraft with the small walkway on the left intake, dating all the way back to 1970(!). I also found some shots of Hahn and Ramstein (i.e., other USAFE units) F-4Es that also had the small walkways on the left, and at least one Hahn jet with the same walkway mirrored on the right intake.

 - Some of these photos were of *former* Soesterberg 32 TFS F-4Es, when the photos were taken...so I can't say with certainty that only the 32nd applied these, or if the USAFE depot at CASA, Spain, also applied these(?).

 

But, I do know for certain the photo of "your" subject, 74-1054, is still in its factory-applied camouflage, with the factory-applied borderless national insignia, and the factory placards (aka, stencils); but it also has that non-factory, small walkway...which leads me to believe that the unit applied that at the same time they overpainted the factory tail number and applied the unit markings.

 

For Rudy, ref. the close-up shot on the "overshoot" page where you point out the stencil breaks on the white stenciling: Yes! Those are white stencils with angular letters and definite "stencil breaks." They are depot-applied stencils...they are *NOT* factory-applied stencils; and even though the serial number isn't visible on the data block; you can clearly see that the "Block Number" starts with a "3." That means that's one of their "original" batch F-4Es, Block-38/39, 1968 and 1969 serial numbers...so that is an older airframe, that had gone through a full depot repaint sometime in the mid-70s, prior to when their brand-new 1974 airframes were delivered in 1976...and that photo is a perfect reference for how those white and black depot stencils looked. It also proves that Soesterberg had some of those white-stenciled depot re-paints on their earlier F-4Es (i.e., the FY68-69 airframes, after they received the slat upgrade mods). So rock-on! You have a good reference to start your white-stenciled Soesterberg F-4E! But realize, that aircraft was from the original batch of 1968/69 serial numbers, that were delivered to the 32nd in 1969-1970...so we are talking about different aircraft than the 1974 airframe Leon is building.

 

Good Hunting Leon!

Cheers,

Chris

Edited December 4, 2023 by cmayer

[cmayer]

 

 

Leon-

Here's a 1975 model F-4E (i.e., one fiscal year "newer" than your model subject), purchased by the German Air Force to augment their F-4F inventory, and stationed at George AFB, California, in the late 70s...this airframe is still in its original factory camouflage, and has all the original factory placards; and you can see it does not have that short walkway on top of the intake:

(Interesting to note that the Germans did not buy the TISEO system with their small batch of 1975 F-4Es; but the wing mount is still present on the airframe)

 

 

Here's a shot of a typical F-4E in pure factory markings; albeit this is a 1966 production model; and the photo was ca. 1968, when McDonnell was in talks with the Shah of Iran to purchase F-4Es after their F-4D orders were completed. Here, the Shah is about to get a flight in the aft seat of an F-4E.

* Notice, though, there is no factory-applied walkway on the intake itself, just the trapezoidal/parallelogram walkway on the main wing root in the background. Also notice the white paint "dots" on the various panel junctions.

 

 

And, here's another earlier FY F-4E to show the upper surfaces with the factory-applied markings on this 1969-model F-4E, while on its delivery flight to Australia in 1970. The only walkways applied from the factory are on the wing roots:

 

And finally, here's a B&W shot of another 1968-model F-4E, this time one that was assigned to the 50 TFW at Hahn; but interestingly, it looks like it has that short walkway applied to the upper intake on the left side. Builds the case in my mind, that the USAFE units were applying these short walkways on their F-4Es all the way back to 1970 or 1971, since it's only USAFE units that we have found with one or both of these short walkways on the intakes. Really interesting discovery you've made, Leon; and they were right in front of our noses for the last 50 years, haha.

 

 

Cheers,
Chris

[Grunticus]

On 11/28/2023 at 10:23 PM, Grunticus said:

Lastly, does anyone have a photo that shows readable text of the data plate on the inside of the air brake? The decal paper arrived today. I am preparing decals for it, and on a test-print it looks like even the small letters can de read in 1/32, although barely.

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

 

BTW, I was glancing at the Revell decal sheet, and the placard decals for the air brakes are provided on the decal sheet after all (decal number 76), there's just no mention of them in the instructions anywhere, but...saved me some work.

[Shujaa]

Ha, sounds a little bit "typical" for Revell. They have some more subjects on the market that contain some extra goodies which are not mentioned in their instructions...   

 

@ Chris:

Thanx for "confirming" my train of thought.

I've been reading Your additional information regarding the stencils with great interest. Over at "overshoot", they mentioned that the F-4E "earliers" went to Spain twice to receive some updates. If Your assumption is correct, which I believe it is, they must also have been re-painted and therefore received the DEPOT-style stencils. That, in turn, would explain the "breaks" in the stencils, depicted in the close-up shot of the nose-section.

 

Question:

As for the F-4E "late" bird's; do You happen to know if they ever received DEPOT-service in Spain (during their life-span within the 32nd) at which they were re-painted and received DEPOT-style B&W stencils ? (TIA)

 

Kind regards,

 

Rudy.

 

P.S.:

Thank You for enclosing the link's to the Fundekal PDF's which I have downloaded for future ref's.   

[Grunticus]

18 hours ago, cmayer said:

 

 

Leon-

Here's a 1975 model F-4E (i.e., one fiscal year "newer" than your model subject), purchased by the German Air Force to augment their F-4F inventory, and stationed at George AFB, California, in the late 70s...this airframe is still in its original factory camouflage, and has all the original factory placards; and you can see it does not have that short walkway on top of the intake:

(Interesting to note that the Germans did not buy the TISEO system with their small batch of 1975 F-4Es; but the wing mount is still present on the airframe)

 

 

Here's a shot of a typical F-4E in pure factory markings; albeit this is a 1966 production model; and the photo was ca. 1968, when McDonnell was in talks with the Shah of Iran to purchase F-4Es after their F-4D orders were completed. Here, the Shah is about to get a flight in the aft seat of an F-4E.

* Notice, though, there is no factory-applied walkway on the intake itself, just the trapezoidal/parallelogram walkway on the main wing root in the background. Also notice the white paint "dots" on the various panel junctions.

 

 

And, here's another earlier FY F-4E to show the upper surfaces with the factory-applied markings on this 1969-model F-4E, while on its delivery flight to Australia in 1970. The only walkways applied from the factory are on the wing roots:

 

And finally, here's a B&W shot of another 1968-model F-4E, this time one that was assigned to the 50 TFW at Hahn; but interestingly, it looks like it has that short walkway applied to the upper intake on the left side. Builds the case in my mind, that the USAFE units were applying these short walkways on their F-4Es all the way back to 1970 or 1971, since it's only USAFE units that we have found with one or both of these short walkways on the intakes. Really interesting discovery you've made, Leon; and they were right in front of our noses for the last 50 years, haha.

 

 

Cheers,
Chris

 

21 hours ago, cmayer said:

Hey Leon!
Great catch on the small walkway on the upper left intake: I have never noticed that before, and I have looked at these photos many times in the past. You totally have me caught, flat-footed on that discovery.

But, just like Rudy, I did some looking around, and re-looked at photos I already have in my collection...and I think Rudy is absolutely correct: I think the unit applied these small walkways when they received their "new" 1974 E-models; because I can't find any other "factory-new" photo that shows a walkway there (the only factory walkway I have ever seen is the "trapezoidal" walkway on the main wing root).

And, like Rudy, I found photos of their "previous" batch of 1968-69 E-models, both before and after they received their slat modifications, and there are clear photos of those aircraft with the small walkway on the left intake, dating all the way back to 1970(!). I also found some shots of Hahn and Ramstein (i.e., other USAFE units) F-4Es that also had the small walkways on the left, and at least one Hahn jet with the same walkway mirrored on the right intake.

 - Some of these photos were of *former* Soesterberg 32 TFS F-4Es, when the photos were taken...so I can't say with certainty that only the 32nd applied these, or if the USAFE depot at CASA, Spain, also applied these(?).

 

But, I do know for certain the photo of "your" subject, 74-1054, is still in its factory-applied camouflage, with the factory-applied borderless national insignia, and the factory placards (aka, stencils); but it also has that non-factory, small walkway...which leads me to believe that the unit applied that at the same time they overpainted the factory tail number and applied the unit markings.

 

For Rudy, ref. the close-up shot on the "overshoot" page where you point out the stencil breaks on the white stenciling: Yes! Those are white stencils with angular letters and definite "stencil breaks." They are depot-applied stencils...they are *NOT* factory-applied stencils; and even though the serial number isn't visible on the data block; you can clearly see that the "Block Number" starts with a "3." That means that's one of their "original" batch F-4Es, Block-38/39, 1968 and 1969 serial numbers...so that is an older airframe, that had gone through a full depot repaint sometime in the mid-70s, prior to when their brand-new 1974 airframes were delivered in 1976...and that photo is a perfect reference for how those white and black depot stencils looked. It also proves that Soesterberg had some of those white-stenciled depot re-paints on their earlier F-4Es (i.e., the FY68-69 airframes, after they received the slat upgrade mods). So rock-on! You have a good reference to start your white-stenciled Soesterberg F-4E! But realize, that aircraft was from the original batch of 1968/69 serial numbers, that were delivered to the 32nd in 1969-1970...so we are talking about different aircraft than the 1974 airframe Leon is building.

 

Good Hunting Leon!

Cheers,

Chris

 

Thanks Chris, really very informative and interesting. That photo of Reza Pahlavi is really nice! I will just go by the photos I have and try to recreate as much as I can. For me, it does not have to be 100% accurate, but I strive to get as near as possible within my modelling capabilities. I have tried a lot of new things in this build, and the next one will be even better thanks to that, and you all. So many here helped in getting there and getting the right information for my Phantom, and I highly appreciate it!

 

On to the build, not much done today. Yesterday I restored the paint job, it took me about 45 minutes in all. She's as good as new.

 

 

Work has continued on the gear. Still no news of my package from the UK. I am not going to wait for it. The gear is painted-up and I have painted the rims and tires, which are ready for weathering. The Revell gear is not bad at all,  and their rims / tires are nothing to be ashamed of, but no contest for the Reskit ones. I will see what's behind the 3mm too high story when the gear is on. It will have to be at least obvious for me to see (like the too-low backseat) to make me want to tackle it, even when it's so easy to do.

 

Again: how was it determined? What was the load-out and fuel state of the plane compared, was it compared to the Revell model with weighted or unweighted tires? So many variables that there cannot be one truth about this (in my view of course). The internet is full of such truths, and I have learned "always" and "never" are better avoided in aviation history, and modelling especially.

 

The TIE DOWN stencils were made with the laser printer. Placards from Airscale.

 

I've made the crew names placard for the nose. Although a bit thick, it did sink int to the panel lines. It felt rewarding to make and apply. I think I can make the little bits of white coming through disappear with Tamiya black wash. The 8µ stock decal sheets I ordered might yield better results for the future. We will see.

 

 

Cheers!

[Shujaa]

Just stumbled upon these site's for printing Your own decals:

 

https://www.vinar.cz/index_en.html

 

and

 

https://www.spotmodel.com/printlab_howto.php

 

Decided to just drop them in this thread to have them "pinned" somewhere. Who know's, they might become of any use to future-projects...

Haven't got a clue regarding "quality" and "pricing" though.   

 

Kind regards,

 

Rudy.

[Shujaa]

1) Sorry to take away Your "shine" with my previous post but it look's like we both "reacted" almost at the exact same time...

 

2) You actualy went ahead with the name-tag...?!?!?!

     You're killing me !!!            

 

3) Excellent job on the repaint-job. Guess the lady just went through Your depot-maintenance so now You can aply the "broken" stencils with 100% accuracy confidence.      Sweet job on the leg's as well. Besides the fact that You made me "committed", You're also forcing me to bring my "A-game" when time comes...

 

Keep up the mighty good work my friend.

 

Kind regards,

 

Rudy. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Shujaa

[Grunticus]

Well you guys were right. it just looks off. Just so I am still right I'm going to lengthen the nose gear by 3mm. Kidding of course

 

 

The sets of gears from Aerocraft arrived this morning, phinally (I could not help myself there). So, I'm going to use these on this build after all. Here's a comparison. The Aerocraft ones are more defined and almost seam-free, and as mentioned earlier, come already shortened.

 

 

 

[Grunticus]

Today I resumed assembling the AIM-9Js. Delicate work. I have broken one fin, and that is exactly the amount of sound copies I was able to make out of five pours of resin (20 fins). The missiles are ready for paint.

 

I also finished the TISEO I was able to copy in resin. The glass front is made out of a very clear blister pack and glued in with wood glue, and inside is the lens that was the navigation light. Also ready for paint and attaching it to the left wing. If I am not mistaking it's positioned in-line with the inner pylon.

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Grunticus

[Grunticus]

I got a little closer to the end. The wheels are complete and weathered, and the AIM-9J are coming along. I just made a mistake painting the fin-tips (painted too much metal), so I will have to redo the the tail part. But they do look very nice.

 

 

Yesterday the Procal stencils decal set arrived. My god, they look awesome! That will keep me quiet for a while. Here's what you get:

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Grunticus

[Shujaa]

Goodie - Goodie !!!

Boy, those stencils look sweet. The only "flaw" I can find is that it look's like they goofed-up the yellow but I surely can live with that. "True" brigth yellow might look too over-powering on a SEA-camo jet anyway, if You ask me. If these sheets come close to the "Microscale" offering (in 1/48 scale), You better get ready to apply some 500+ individual stencil-decals...  

 

Hey wait a minute... I just realize I ordered 4 set's for my intended Spook-family...     Maybe I'd better drop my devious idea and build another simple Hawker Hunter instead.   

 

Have fun applying the stencils.   

 

Kind regards,

 

Rudy.

[Grunticus]

The Sidewinders and gear are finished. The Sidewinders took quite a while because they're so delicate, and because I changed my weathering technique completely. The new process is slower but yield nicer results (doesn't it always?).

 

How would I best go about gluing the brass gear to the plastic wing? I have two-part epoxy glue and the mating surface is quite large. I will drill some small holes in the gear area of the wing so the glue could penetrate and hopefully form drop-shaped retainer on the inside of the wing. Any tips are most welcome! Maybe drill small angled holes in the gear itself as well?

 

 

The wheels are not yet glued, that will be last to make sure they're level.

 

[Phil88]

Nice work my friend 

[alain11]

Hi

I think the  two - parts  epoxy glue is the best way,, it's strong  ,however, remains somewhat fragile ( paradoxe )  ,but , I trust you  , you already have  proven your inventiveness ..If you allow , your gear legs would deserve some more details .....wires ?...very good job so far .....it's a very interesting thread 

Alain 

[Shujaa]

Once again a sweet update Leon. Those winders look sweet and maybe I have to consider them as well...   

 

As for the landing-gear: How about drilling a pilot-hole in the strut, corresponding with a "tight-fit" hole in the landing-gear area of the wing. Insert a piece of paper-clip wire into the "pilot-hole" of the gear-strut, apply the epoxy and "install" it into the hole in the landing-gear area of the wing. If You can make the hole in the landing-gear area of the wing a real tight-fit, it should give You a lot of srength & stability...

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Kind regards,

 

Rudy.