Backdating a Zoukei-Mura A-1J to an A-1H

[Bill Cross]

I purchased a Zoukei-Mura A-1J Skyraider from a member here, but am leaning towards building an H.

 

Now the LOGICAL thing to do would be to build the J AND buy an H and then build it.

 

But life is short and kits are many, so looking at the sprues and build manuals, it seems like all the parts for an H are in the J kit, plus an M sprue for changing the wing tips and adding some electronics on the spine. The J seat parts appear to already be on the A sprue.

 

So I'm hoping those of you who have built perhaps both kits can confirm the above or correct any mistakes I have made.

 

My goal is to build a VNAF Skyraider, and the most-appealing are the white Hs that got REALLY dirty and weathered.

[Dave Williams]

Pretty simple.  Just don’t use the J-specific parts on the new M sprue.  Also, IIRC, the J kit includes the full H instruction booklet, with the specific changes to steps for the J parts on a couple of addendum sheets.  Just don’t use the addendum sheet instructions.

[quang]

3 hours ago, Bill Cross said:

 

My goal is to build a VNAF Skyraider, and the most-appealing are the white Hs that got REALLY dirty and weathered.

I’ll follow your build and will be glad to help. To aviation lovers who grew up in Viet Nam, Skyraiders are like Spitfires to the British. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by quang

[Bill Cross]

9 hours ago, quang said:

To aviation lovers who grew up in Viet Nam, Skyraiders are like Spitfires to the British. 

I saw a film clip of one that looked like its entire rear half was darkened and that really appeals to me. If you have photos, I would be much obliged.

 

I didn't know that, unlike US pilots who rotated home after a tour "in-country," VNAF pilots kept flying combat, sometimes accumulating 20,000+ hours behind the stick.

[quang]

15 minutes ago, Bill Cross said:

 

 

I didn't know that, unlike US pilots who rotated home after a tour "in-country," VNAF pilots kept flying combat, sometimes accumulating 20,000+ hours behind the stick.

Correct. Unlike US servicemen, they didn’t have another country to return to. 
Which period do you prefer? All grey (pre-1965) or camouflaged (post -1965)?

[Bill Cross]

White/gray. According to my sources, the TAC camo and other brown/green combos didn't exclude "white" planes after 1965.

[Rob Colvin]

If you do not do not use the J specific parts, i would be interested in obtaining them. 

 

Rob

[Bill Cross]

I see no problem with that.

[quang]

6 hours ago, Bill Cross said:

White/gray. According to my sources, the TAC camo and other brown/green combos didn't exclude "white" planes after 1965.

A quick resume:

The first batch of VNAF A-1s consisted of reconditioned ex-US Navy planes. They were painted Light Gull Gray overall (no white underside) with large national insignia and brightly-colored fuselage sash band denoting the first few squadrons.

The later batches came directly from US Navy stock and wore the original Navy Gull Gray/ Gloss White camouflage. New squadrons (with new unit insignia) were added.

With the introduction of TAC scheme, camouflage was gradually added to the VNAF fleet with the new arrivals already painted in SEA scheme.

It was that period (1965), that grey and camouflaged planes co-existed.

[Bill Cross]

That's very helpful. I will need to go through my references to pick the aircraft I want to depict, but dirty is beautiful. AoA Decals folks say these birds didn't have much stenciling, so I'm trying to decide whether to go with LGG and no stencils or LGG/White a get the stencils from this dude in Serbia who has them, but for $25 a sheet (ouch).

[Oldbaldguy]

13 hours ago, Bill Cross said:

That's very helpful. I will need to go through my references to pick the aircraft I want to depict, but dirty is beautiful. AoA Decals folks say these birds didn't have much stenciling, so I'm trying to decide whether to go with LGG and no stencils or LGG/White a get the stencils from this dude in Serbia who has them, but for $25 a sheet (ouch).

Helpful rule of thumb:  the more times an airplane has need repainted, the fewer the stencils.

[quang]

15 hours ago, Bill Cross said:

AoA Decals folks say these birds didn't have much stenciling,

Correct. When they were re-conditioned and newly-delivered to the VNAF, these aircraft were devoid of most maintenance stenciling.
I had photos of these birds from a Life magazine article and the National Geographic. I’ll need some time to recover them.

[quang]

I just unearthed this picture of one of the first US advisers sent to Vietnam (ca 1962) in front of an early VNAF AD-6 as they were known then.

Note the Phoenix insignia (1st Sqn later 514 TFS VNAF) so often mis-represented on models and the crew chief surname (Thang).

[jeroen_R90S]

Great photo -there's also a faint stencil "CO - Truong" or something alike behind the crew chief's name.

 

This aircraft looks like it had at least some of it's stencilling (pylon, canopy, some stencil or other on the black nose panel).

The A-1J has the original ZM Navy decals in there too, and there's stencilling there just so you don't have to buy from Serbia. And the A-1J sheet has some basic stencils for a camouflaged one, too. 

 

Here's some inspiration you may have seen via Google:

https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/a-1/ad_vnaf_gallery.shtml

 

Eventually, for my own Skyraider, I'm thinking about this one:

 

For more camouflaged weathering look at this one:

Look at that wing leading edge and the Gloss Sea Blue pylon... the other 2 are still grey and grey-white

(sourced from the Cybermodeller page)

 

Although the one on the left is really, really dirty!

 

Jeroen

Edited March 20, 2023 by jeroen_R90S

[CRAZY IVAN5]

31 minutes ago, jeroen_R90S said:

Great photo -there's also a faint stencil "CO - Truong" or something alike behind the crew chief's name.

 

This aircraft looks like it had at least some of it's stencilling (pylon, canopy, some stencil or other on the black nose panel).

The A-1J has the original ZM Navy decals in there too, and there's stencilling there just so you don't have to buy from Serbia. And the A-1J sheet has some basic stencils for a camouflaged one, too. 

 

Here's some inspiration you may have seen via Google:

https://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/a-1/ad_vnaf_gallery.shtml

 

Eventually, for my own Skyraider, I'm thinking about this one:

 

For more camouflaged weathering look at this one:

Look at that wing leading edge and the Gloss Sea Blue pylon... the other 2 are still grey and grey-white

(sourced from the Cybermodeller page)

 

Although the one on the left is really, really dirty!

 

Jeroen

Very interesting pic and a good case study for the type. Dirty? those 3350s are famous for their dirty operations can't keep oil in the damn things ! i worked on them for ~2 years[ on Neptune fire bombers] If it ain't leakin' it's empty! Talked with an old Skyraider pilot [ Vietnam vet], and he told me that the endurance of each plane was determined by the oil consumption not the fuel burn although that's a factor too. After seeing first hand on these engines I can believe it, if ya like wrenchin' these are the engines for you!