Bf 109G experts please..!

[Tolga ULGUR]

Hello everyone,

I need a brief confirmation about BF 109G s.

Is there any visual difference between BF-109G6/AS and BF-109G14/AS except for the oil sump bulges on both sides of the nose.?

Thanks in advance

 

[Juggernut]

I think the 109G-14/AS would also have MW50 but subject to verification.   I'm no expert but I have the Mermet book now.

[ProfessionalAmateur]

Many of the G6/AS had older, smaller oilcooler. But basically that and lack of bulges on lower cowling were only differences yes.

[Tolga ULGUR]

1 hour ago, Juggernut said:

I think the 109G-14/AS would also have MW50 but subject to verification.   I'm no expert but I have the Mermet book now.

 

1 hour ago, ProfessionalAmateur said:

Many of the G6/AS had older, smaller oilcooler. But basically that and lack of bulges on lower cowling were only differences yes.

 

Thanks for your replies, appreciated.

[D.B. Andrus]

Some G-14AS' had the larger oil tank (raised filler port) due to standardization efforts. Early G-14AS' (MTT?) did not have the oil line "chin bulges", but a standard lower cowl. Oil cooler size varies on the G-6AS. An AS determining factor is the lower position of the cold start port on the starboard engine cowling with the 605AS  motor compared to the 605D.  605AS = lower port/ 605D = raised port/ or 2 ports with the lower one sealed.

 

As Juggernut stated the G-14/G-14AS would have the MW 50 option.

 

HTH,

Damian

[ProfessionalAmateur]

20 minutes ago, D.B. Andrus said:

 

As Juggernut stated the G-14/G-14AS would have the MW 50 option.

 

HTH,

Damian

 And to make everything little bit more complicated, there was also G6/MW/AS.

[thierry laurent]

Even if you know how should look like planes belonging to a specific batch, linking a specific airframe to that batch is another matter! Actually, without the plane serial number, it is VERY difficult if not impossible to differentiate some G6/AS, G14/AS and G-10 planes!

 

You rarely have more than one or two wartime pictures and typically they only show part of the airframe. So, you can often exclude one option but very rarely be sure about the final one as there were exceptions regarding many features: nose bumps, oil cooler type, propeller blades, wing wheel bumps, etc.

 

 

[Juggernut]

Ok, now I have some questions about Erla G-10's... for that I'm going to start a new thread as to not clutter this one up. :)

[thierry laurent]

Here is a list I published some years ago. I do not know which kit you want to use but if this is the Hasegawa G-10, this will be useful for you. This stresses the differences to make a G-14AS from a G10 kit. However, do not underestimate my use of the adverb "normally"! As aforementioned, there were a lot of exceptions and without the Werknummer, no way to be sure!

 

 - the curve and shapes of the fuselage bulge was slightly different. This is not very noticeable except in front of the windscreen.
- the deeper Fo 987 cooler was a standard production feature of MW 50 equipped and DB 605ASM/ASMO powered late G-6/AS and ASM/ASMO/ASB and ASC powered G-14/AS. All Mtt-Reg. G-14/AS planes had  the deeper Fo 987 cooler. So check the nose of the plane you want to build.
- the G14AS had normally no chin bulges but some AS planes had a nose cowling with bulges in spite they were useless: standardization of production reason? I've never seen a Mtt Regensburg G-14/AS that didn't have the deep oil cooler and the chin bulges. They were not needed in theory but for ease of production the same parts were used for the G-14/AS and the K-4. From December 1944-January 1945, G-14/AS had the chin bulges due to the introduction of DB 605 ASB/ASC which adopted the DB 605 D new engine valve covers. The only one point that permit to recognise a DB 605 AS with chin bulges from a DB 605 D is the location of the oil tank hatch which is in a lower position for the DB 605 AS. That applies for the left side. On the right side engine cowlings must be opened to see if electrical connexions of the DB 605 D are present or not.
- the oil filler hatch on the left side must be filled in and the blanking plate shall be changed into the oil hatch in the lower position.
- the cold weather start device hatch on the right cowling shall be filled in and relocated downwards.
- the MK 108 blast hole shall be filled in (located after the last starboard exhaust pipe).
- the Kurfurst paddle-shaped propeller blade type was used on some planes.
- the battery box on the rear cockpit bulkhead should remain. That area should not be flat on any G-14.
-the G14AS had the new Erla canopy locking system and the mast on the canopy because they were not retrofitted airplanes as the G6AS! The G-14/AS introduced the revised release mechanism, also introducing the production variant of the Erla canopy which differed slightly from the replacement canopy. So, the G-14/AS received the later and final variant of the Erla hood right from the start.
- the AS planes normally used the thinner steel wheels and bean-shaped upper wing bulges (G-6 type).
- the G14AS normally had the Morane antenna of the FuG16ZY located under the wing (as the G14).
- the smaller tail wheel shall normally be used but all Mtt-Reg. G-14/AS planes had elongated tailwheel leg .
- the mark normally used the earlier metal rather than the wood tail. So, fin and rudder shall be modified (round off the rudder bottom profile, remove the rectangular rudder tabs and add the lower fixed curved tab, add the horizontal seam on vertical stab and fill the leading edge metal strengthener panel lines on vertical stab and finally relocate the tail lamp).

[Tolga ULGUR]

46 minutes ago, thierry laurent said:

Here is a list I published some years ago. I do not know whick kit you want to use but if this is the Hasegawa G-10, this will be useful for you. This stresses the differences to make a G-14AS from a G10 kit. However, do not underestimate my use of the adverb "normally"! As aforementioned, there were a lot of exceptions and without the Werknummer, no way to be sure!

 

 - the curve and shapes of the fuselage bulge was slightly different. This is not very noticeable except in front of the windscreen.
- the deeper Fo 987 cooler was a standard production feature of MW 50 equipped and DB 605ASM/ASMO powered late G-6/AS and ASM/ASMO/ASB and ASC powered G-14/AS. All Mtt-Reg. G-14/AS planes had  the deeper Fo 987 cooler. So check the nose of the plane you want to build.
- the G14AS had normally no chin bulges but some AS planes had a nose cowling with bulges in spite they were useless: standardization of production reason? I've never seen a Mtt Regensburg G-14/AS that didn't have the deep oil cooler and the chin bulges. They were not needed in theory but for ease of production the same parts were used for the G-14/AS and the K-4. From December 1944-January 1945, G-14/AS had the chin bulges due to the introduction of DB 605 ASB/ASC which adopted the DB 605 D new engine valve covers. The only one point that permit to recognise a DB 605 AS with chin bulges from a DB 605 D is the location of the oil tank hatch which is in a lower position for the DB 605 AS. That applies for the left side. On the right side engine cowlings must be opened to see if electrical connexions of the DB 605 D are present or not.
- the oil filler hatch on the left side must be filled in and the blanking plate shall be changed into the oil hatch in the lower position.
- the cold weather start device hatch on the right cowling shall be filled in and relocated downwards.
- the MK 108 blast hole shall be filled in (located after the last starboard exhaust pipe).
- the Kurfurst paddle-shaped propeller blade type was used on some planes.
- the battery box on the rear cockpit bulkhead should remain. That area should not be flat on any G-14.
-the G14AS had the new Erla canopy locking system and the mast on the canopy because they were not retrofitted airplanes as the G6AS! The G-14/AS introduced the revised release mechanism, also introducing the production variant of the Erla canopy which differed slightly from the replacement canopy. So, the G-14/AS received the later and final variant of the Erla hood right from the start.
- the AS planes normally used the thinner steel wheels and bean-shaped upper wing bulges (G-6 type).
- the G14AS normally had the Morane antenna of the FuG16ZY located under the wing (as the G14).
- the smaller tail wheel shall normally be used but all Mtt-Reg. G-14/AS planes had elongated tailwheel leg .
- the mark normally used the earlier metal rather than the wood tail. So, fin and rudder shall be modified (round off the rudder bottom profile, remove the rectangular rudder tabs and add the lower fixed curved tab, add the horizontal seam on vertical stab and fill the leading edge metal strengthener panel lines on vertical stab and finally relocate the tail lamp).

Fantastic detailed information Thierry.

Yes my plan is using Hasegawa s kit

Thanks a lot , really much appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Tolga ULGUR]

1 hour ago, thierry laurent said:

Even if you know how should look like planes belonging to a specific batch, linking a specific airframe to that batch is another matter! Actually, without the plane serial number, it is VERY difficult if not impossible to differentiate some G6/AS, G14/AS and G-10 planes!

 

You rarely have more than one or two wartime pictures and typically they only show part of the airframe. So, you can often exclude one option but very rarely be sure about the final one as there were exceptions regarding many features: nose bumps, oil cooler type, propeller blades, wing wheel bumps, etc.

 

 

 

This is the G6AS I plan to build. I always appreciate your additional comments, if any.

I'm thinking of using Hasegawa G10 as a donor kit.

 

[thierry laurent]

4 hours ago, Tolga ULGUR said:

 

This is the G6AS I plan to build. I always appreciate your additional comments, if any.

I'm thinking of using Hasegawa G10 as a donor kit.

 

Nice scheme but I would not start from a profile even if the guy normally does a good job. The original pictures should be somewhere... This was Walter Oesau plane.

[Mark P]

Aren't 109's fun! 

 

Mark Proulx

[ProfessionalAmateur]

7 hours ago, thierry laurent said:

Nice scheme but I would not start from a profile even if the guy normally does a good job. The original pictures should be somewhere... This was Walter Oesau plane.

 

Walter Oesau flew "green 13", right?

[Gazzas]

1 hour ago, ProfessionalAmateur said:

 

Walter Oesau flew "green 13", right?

 

You are correct, sir.