Tamiya P-51D to Mustang IV - questions

[Jboldt007]

thanks for comments. the interesting thing (and a source of caution i've found) is it seems many 442 mustangs were different. Edmonton Special was a P-51K with the later props while ones like 'T' and 'H' were P-51Ds with cuffed Hamilton Standard props. At least i think they are cuffed. Red Roos has louvres thankfully for the carb vents. some are even said to have the radar warning system installed (?).  But the best thing - i read that most did not have the aerial wire going from the tail through the canopy - i like the sound of that- pun intended!

 

you know ... having said that....canopies... they had several different types of canopies it seems ... the 'Dallas'... can't recall the other. The Tamiya kit gives you several options ...? I don't know what the difference is (honestly, i should order a book...)...

[MikeMaben]

Help maybe ... differences are pretty small ...

 

 

[Bill Bunting]

I have a question for you.

 

How are you planning to tackle the Sqn. codes "Y2-( )" and serial numbers?   

 

The masks you mentioned are for the camo only.  There are no decals I know of nor masks for the specific codes.

 

As I said I'm doing Y2-C / KH661 but as a restored example not WW2 original.  It has grey (maybe off-white) codes without the yellow border.  I'm thinking of cutting my own masks out of artist frisket paper using the Eduard 1/48 Y2-B as a guide.

 

Any ideas?

 

Bill.

[R Palimaka]

The colour of the code letters on the Vintage Wings Mustang is "Sky", the same as the band on the rear fuselage. It was more a greenish-greyish colour. VWC spent a lot of effort getting the scheme right. There are decal sheets with RAF Sky code letters in 1/32 available, but masks would look amazing. I might have some available in my stash, I'd have to look. 

 

If you're doing the restored version, the prop is not the same as the Aeroproducts prop in the Tamiya P-51K . The VWC Mustang has the later Hamilton Standard prop without the cuffs, and has broader tips...it was more common post-war.  Visually they're very similar, but there are after market versions available if you wanted.

 

Richard

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by R Palimaka

[Bill Bunting]

6 minutes ago, R Palimaka said:

The colour of the code letters on the Vintage Wings Mustang is "Sky", the same as the band on the rear fuselage. It was more a greenish-greyish colour. VWC spent a lot of effort getting the scheme right. There are decal sheets with RAF Sky code letters in 1/32 available, but masks would look amazing. I might have some available in my stash, I'd have to look. 

 

If you're doing the restored version, the prop is not the same as the Aeroproducts prop in the Tamiya P-51K . The VWC Mustang has the later Hamilton Standard prop without the cuffs and broader tips...it was more common post-war.  Visually they're very similar, but there are after market versions available if you wanted.

 

Richard

 

Thanks Richard.

I plan to make a trip up there soon to look over the Mustang and Spitfire plus get some info on their now departed Spitfire XVI.  I plan to cover them all.  I thought the Mustang codes were grey based on a few photos but Sky makes more sense and I won't put paint into the airbrush before documenting it all personally.  I also will likely do the Lysander they used to own but in that case, I'd prefer to do it in its original target tug configuration.

Thanks for the info on the prop.  

Cheers.

[R Palimaka]

22 hours ago, Jboldt007 said:

thanks for comments. the interesting thing (and a source of caution i've found) is it seems many 442 mustangs were different. Edmonton Special was a P-51K with the later props while ones like 'T' and 'H' were P-51Ds with cuffed Hamilton Standard props. At least i think they are cuffed. Red Roos has louvres thankfully for the carb vents. some are even said to have the radar warning system installed (?).  But the best thing - i read that most did not have the aerial wire going from the tail through the canopy - i like the sound of that- pun intended!

 

you know ... having said that....canopies... they had several different types of canopies it seems ... the 'Dallas'... can't recall the other. The Tamiya kit gives you several options ...? I don't know what the difference is (honestly, i should order a book...)...

 

Always a good thing if you can find a photo of the one you want to do to confirm things. Yes, H, T and C had the Hamilton Standard cuffed prop. The pattern of the camouflage shows that they were painted in the UK, with British paints. "Edmonton Special/B" had Aeroproduct prop as you pointed out. 

 

The rear-warning system was not installed on RAF Mustangs, although apparently some had the antennas on the tail installed. I couldn't find any on the 442 aircraft. And no, no antenna wire on RAF (or USAAF) Mustangs in the ETO. 

 

As for the canopy, here is a close-up of one of 442s Mustangs. 

 

photo from Mallandaine collection

 

Richard

[Kagemusha]

6 hours ago, Bill Bunting said:

I have a question for you.

 

How are you planning to tackle the Sqn. codes "Y2-( )" and serial numbers?   

 

The masks you mentioned are for the camo only.  There are no decals I know of nor masks for the specific codes.

 

As I said I'm doing Y2-C / KH661 but as a restored example not WW2 original.  It has grey (maybe off-white) codes without the yellow border.  I'm thinking of cutting my own masks out of artist frisket paper using the Eduard 1/48 Y2-B as a guide.

 

Any ideas?

 

Bill.

 

 

Just in case you haven't seen this, with Wartime photos, and Xtradecal make sets of suitable serial letters and numbers and code letters and numbers.

[Jboldt007]

good comments - love the picture of Y2-C ,Richard. So pretty. What a beauty!

i got the xtradecal sky-grey letters - the problem is ... it's hard to tell on some aircraft if the letters are outlined in yellow and/ or whether the 'Y2' is white? Even if you look at Y2-T above ... it seems the the 'Y2' is lighter. Some sources say that ... like, Y2-C was all sky-grey without outline. But even different versions of the same photo look conflicting. In some photos Y2-T the letters look all the same but in the close-up above they look different. Alas I couldn't find any current letters for the Y2 if this was the case. I think 'Eagle Products' had them in 1/32 but no longer available. Anyway, all sky-grey is probably okay in the end. Some like 'Jas' and Y2-B were clearly different letter colours based on photos. 

 

Anyway thanks for canopy info. I guess the California canopy is the same as the 'Inglewood'? Maybe the Dallas one was designed for attachment of the earlier mirror or maybe they were just different manufacturers?

 

Anyway here is my. Barracuda radio/ battery. Nice but the Tamiya is just fine too. Barracuda always gives you a wiring diagram although in the end those bits won't really be visible....

 

[Jboldt007]

i was going to add i also got serial numbers from xtradecal. i'd love to do masks but don't know of any. Roundels and flashes would be masks (gulp!!) or HGW wet transfers (not water slide).

[BloorwestSiR]

Maketar makes many of the masks that you'd need. You can also ask them to do custom ones for the serials and codes. I've used them many times on my builds. 

 

Heres a quick primer on using masks. 

 

1) I draw alignment marks on the mask to help line them up after they've been separated. I also number them each segment so that I know which ones go together. 

 

 

 

2) I'll use a piece of blank masking film to transfer the mask as one piece to the model. You can use the masking material itself or you can buy transfer film which is low tack. 

 

 

3) Position the mask in the correct spot. This is probably the hardest part. If you're not in a huge rush and want to get it absolutely perfect, you can spray a solution of soapy water on the model to let you slide the mask around. You'll have to let that dry before you can start painting though. 

 

 

4) Remove the first element that you're going to paint. In this case it's the red centre of the roundel. 

 

 

5) Repeat for the fin flashes and fuselage roundels. 

 

 

6) I will apply masking tape around the periphery of the masks to prevent any overspray. I will also overlap the seams of the other mask elements to prevent any paint getting between elements where you don't want it. 

 

 

7) Apply paint. I thin it down and apply thin coats so as not to build up too much on the model.

 

 

8) When the paint is dry, re-apply the element you removed, using the alignment marks to get the placement correct.

 

 

9) Then remove the next element and repeat the steps. 

 

 

 

 

The finished results. 

 

 

If you click on any of the pics, that should take you to my SmugMug folder which had more pics of the step by step for masks. 

 

Hope that helps. 

 

Carl

Edited March 3, 2022 by BloorwestSiR
Fix typo

[MikeMaben]

On 3/2/2022 at 7:19 PM, Jboldt007 said:

             I guess the California canopy is the same as the 'Inglewood'?

Yep.

[Jboldt007]

thanks for the mask tips. that's a great tutorial and looks awesome on the spits. the 4 colour roundel looks gorgeous. must be a blast when the last mask comes off. And for the Maketar masks refernce. i never thought of custom because i thought well that might be a hassle. the alignment cross hairs seems to be the best way to keep the position right. one could always cut out a paper photocopy or such to get the centre point exact. i know some of the mask companies will suggest spraying and then replacing a ring on a roundel. i think this is what you've done, Carl. The two colour roundel is easy to envision - but the four colour ones are daunting. i thought there might be a way to paint them without having to replace a ring as it seems like that might be hard to get "just right"?

 

for example- could you say for the 4 colour roundel spray the yellow, mask, \ and then the centre white - then apply the roundel mask in whole, do the camo, pull off the blue ring, then paint that, then mask it and pull out the red circle and paint that. the problem is... for a camo scheme... you'd have to mask over the roundel mask?. Anyway ... best to just give'er and try. the great thing about masking is you can always repaint i guess!

[BloorwestSiR]

Glad you found it helpful. 

 

Generally on roundels I tend to work my way from the inside out. But that's not always the case. 

 

On my Fly Hurricane, I did it more like you described. I did the entire area under the roundels in white first then masked off the parts that stay white. Yellow was next then blue and finally red. Camo came last 

 

 

 

 

I usually plan out the order that I'm going to apply paints in especially with more complicated masks like this CF-18 and Polish F-16. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chek]

Hopefully not too off-topic as it was mentioned in passing.

I've understood from some comment years ago that cuffed prop blades helped push more air through radial engines, for cooling.

If so, why were they also used on inline engines such as the P-51?

[Jboldt007]

Good question, Check, and (not to shelve that question which is a good one) i've got the sutton harness now (QK) but... what seat should i use? HW or the SJ? I can see how the SJ seat would work with it (with lower apertures) but not the HW one...? and finally a comment on masks: thanks. yes I think if you can visualize your way through the colours it should be ok. Like the CF-18 (cool by the way) and F-16. The 4 colour roundel is the biggest challenge it seems to me.

 

So in recap, enquiring minds want to know:

 

(1) what's with the cuffed props with in-line engines?

(2) seats in Mustang IV's late war (specifically 442 sqd). Close up of 'Edmonton Special' appears to be a tube frame so a WM seat. But hard to tell from any other pictures.