ScoobyDoo Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Hi Dana, I have taken a few days to digest what you posted in reply to my question. There isn't anything that I don't follow or do not agree with. There were a lot of variations on how the aircraft were painted. Your Stateside photographs posted in this thread reveal the variations of re-paints/additions to US based aircraft. What I dispute you sort of answered, in that you didn't find any variaitons of the blue gray/light gray scheme. I agree 100% on this! IMHO, the schemes we are seeing depicted on Viva and Marines Dream is dead wrong. Yes, there was fading/weathering over the wing root. But there is no evidence of a scheme where the light gray was sprayed from the middle of the cowl in a straight line along the fuselage. This would have required a repaint of the national insignia and aircraft codes. I just don't see that being done, I can see if the aircraft were Stateside that being done, but not in a warzone. I have DVD footage of Viva taxing in Munda. To me it appears to be a standard blue gray/light gray scheme. The same holds true for the high resolution images you gave me of Marine's Dream, except it is a heavily touched up aircraft. What I see in common on these two aircraft is fading over the wingroot, which may be the result of the coral landing strips they operated off of at that point in the war. I feel it looks like the pattern of wear follows the slip-stream over the wing. As well, there is staining/streaking from the cowls flaps, likely from oil and fluids leaking out from the engine. And both aircraft have patchy touch-ups. As well, I don't see the vertical stab as being a different color as the upper part of the fuselage. Many depict it as light gray, I feel the tail is blue-gray, just like it left the factory. Both of these aircraft would have been delivered in the standard blue gray scheme. I don't see why they would have painted the entire fuselage in the pattern suggested by many. That would have required a lot of time, effort, and resources. I also don't see the need for the change in the field. I only see speedy touch-ups being performed. There is one Birdcage I feel has a straight demarcation and that is Spirit of 76. I have not seen one factory fresh image of a Corsair with a straight line demarcation though. Sometimes I feel I am too passionate about the Corsair. I think I have another photograph of L68 that shows the demarcation curves over the top of the wing and is not a straight line. I think the appearance of a straight line is a combination of weathering and lighting. The exact same weathering I argue appears on Marines Dream and Viva! Cheers, Gary Allan Peters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Ray Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Hmmm...I have to disagree at least partially on F63/pic 1. If you look closely, you can see an almost hard-edge line running from the leading edge of the horiz. stab, running into the top of the right hand bar of the star-and-bars, reappearing from the top left of the left bar, and looping down to the trailing edge of the wing, very close to factory/Navy spec. Below that line, is a slightly lighter color blue, whether a lightened sea blue or dark med blue I don't know how you can tell with a black and white photo. Then below that is another lighter color that appears sim in shade to the vert stabilizer so may be med. blue, or something else. I still think blue-grey or light grey may be involved in some of these earlier birds with re-paints. I just don't see the Navy at war spending that much time feathering and tinting camo colors to try and make smooth gradients of color when as you say touch-ups become near impossible and considering the painting skill that would be required to pull it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Peters Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Hi folks Image 2 FG-1 F163 (BuNo 13061) of VMF-313 on 20 October 1943. (It looks like VMF-313 has a couple of consecutive rough days that October!) This is the only shot I have of this bird, but it appears the demarcation line runs above the wing – the shadow makes me less than certain. Cheers, Dana Looks like a couple of smoke trails to me originating from behind the cowl. Regards, Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbk57 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I received my copy of the book last night and it is worth every penny. By way of background I own the following materials on the Corsair: Detail in Scale, Historie Corsair, Building the Tamiya Corsair, and the Corsair Book by Kagero. This book has some photos I have seen before but in particular the color photos are much higher quality than the published versions I have seen before. There is one photo on Page 44 that shows a closeup of a Guadalcanal Corsair in full color. It is a gold mine of weathering detail. Also there is a photo of Marines Dream on a crane tail up and the full contrast of the doped vs Lacquered areas can be seen although in black and white. The cockpit photos don't look new but they are big and span the full page so you can really see what is going on. I had to magnify the other images I had. I know this is a short fast commentary but I consider the book well worth purchasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_K2 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 If you're looking for some great references on Corsairs, cbk57 (specifically VF-17), these two AJ Press volumes are great. VF-17 'Jolly Rogers', Part 1 VF-17 'Jolly Rogers', Part 2 I'm quite anxious to grab a copy of this new Corsair book as well. All of the others in this series have been great so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Howie Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hi Dana not sure if you will see this. Tried ordering from your Amazon page. Foreign orders not accepted! Any way to get this changed I am sure there are plenty of people outside the US interested in your Corsair book. Cheers Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennismcc Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Yep there are ! keeping an eye out on Amazon uk Cheers Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cross Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Mine arrived today. Looks like a winner to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hi Dana not sure if you will see this. Tried ordering from your Amazon page. Foreign orders not accepted! Any way to get this changed I am sure there are plenty of people outside the US interested in your Corsair book. Cheers Darren Just send Dana an email (listed above) and order direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Bell Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hi Folks, A note on foreign orders - copies of the books are heading to sellers outside of the US, and should be there in a few weeks. If you'd like a copy sooner, the publisher (Steve Wiper listed as Shipcraft Books on US Amazon) has worked out a shipping arrangement that far less expensive than anything I've been able to come up with. You can e-mail Steve via Amazon and he'll fill you in on the details. Also, regardless of how you order internationally, the price to ship 2 or 3 books is about the same as ordering 1 - if you have friends who might be interested, you might get a better deal. Again, contact Steve via US Amazon before you order. Cheers, Dana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Bell Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) Hi Dana, I have taken a few days to digest what you posted in reply to my question. There isn't anything that I don't follow or do not agree with. There were a lot of variations on how the aircraft were painted. Your Stateside photographs posted in this thread reveal the variations of re-paints/additions to US based aircraft. What I dispute you sort of answered, in that you didn't find any variaitons of the blue gray/light gray scheme. I agree 100% on this! IMHO, the schemes we are seeing depicted on Viva and Marines Dream is dead wrong. Yes, there was fading/weathering over the wing root. But there is no evidence of a scheme where the light gray was sprayed from the middle of the cowl in a straight line along the fuselage. This would have required a repaint of the national insignia and aircraft codes. I just don't see that being done, I can see if the aircraft were Stateside that being done, but not in a warzone. I have DVD footage of Viva taxing in Munda. To me it appears to be a standard blue gray/light gray scheme. The same holds true for the high resolution images you gave me of Marine's Dream, except it is a heavily touched up aircraft. What I see in common on these two aircraft is fading over the wingroot, which may be the result of the coral landing strips they operated off of at that point in the war. I feel it looks like the pattern of wear follows the slip-stream over the wing. As well, there is staining/streaking from the cowls flaps, likely from oil and fluids leaking out from the engine. And both aircraft have patchy touch-ups. As well, I don't see the vertical stab as being a different color as the upper part of the fuselage. Many depict it as light gray, I feel the tail is blue-gray, just like it left the factory. Both of these aircraft would have been delivered in the standard blue gray scheme. I don't see why they would have painted the entire fuselage in the pattern suggested by many. That would have required a lot of time, effort, and resources. I also don't see the need for the change in the field. I only see speedy touch-ups being performed. There is one Birdcage I feel has a straight demarcation and that is Spirit of 76. I have not seen one factory fresh image of a Corsair with a straight line demarcation though. Sometimes I feel I am too passionate about the Corsair. I think I have another photograph of L68 that shows the demarcation curves over the top of the wing and is not a straight line. I think the appearance of a straight line is a combination of weathering and lighting. The exact same weathering I argue appears on Marines Dream and Viva! Cheers, Gary Hi Gary, I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you on this - there've been a number of other questions that needed answering, and I've been handling the easier ones first. With any luck, your copy of the book has arrived and you've had a chance to see my opinions of how the schemes worked out. I believe that most of the aircraft that have been interpreted as having Blue Gray and Light Gray applied with a Light Gray tail and high demarcation on the fuselage are actually variations of the 4-tone graded camouflage -- this would include Marine's Dream and Viva. I feel I can distinguish the multiple colors, and the pattern appears to match what was described as the original 4-tone camouflage. We now know that a number of Blue Gray/Light Gray Corsairs were repainted at North Island before they were shipped to the South Pacific. Once there, many were touched up to counter the extremes of weathering. Anyway, that's what I think we're seeing -- as always, it's just an opinion of a bunch of old black and white photos! I'd love to see what else you have on L68! Cheers, Dana Edited December 12, 2014 by Dana Bell Uncarina 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Bell Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hmmm...I have to disagree at least partially on F63/pic 1. If you look closely, you can see an almost hard-edge line running from the leading edge of the horiz. stab, running into the top of the right hand bar of the star-and-bars, reappearing from the top left of the left bar, and looping down to the trailing edge of the wing, very close to factory/Navy spec. Below that line, is a slightly lighter color blue, whether a lightened sea blue or dark med blue I don't know how you can tell with a black and white photo. Then below that is another lighter color that appears sim in shade to the vert stabilizer so may be med. blue, or something else. I still think blue-grey or light grey may be involved in some of these earlier birds with re-paints. I just don't see the Navy at war spending that much time feathering and tinting camo colors to try and make smooth gradients of color when as you say touch-ups become near impossible and considering the painting skill that would be required to pull it off. Hi Ray, You are 100% correct about F63 -- I chose the images of that aircraft because they showed that feathered scheme, but then I wrote the caption just before dawn after a very sleepless night. (Sorry, but that's my only excuse!) The scheme depicted is an almost perfect match for the factory drawing in VS-10900-G, showing the "gradual" transition from NS Sea Blue to white. Thanks for catching that - you've a good eye! Cheers, Dana Uncarina 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Bell Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Looks like a couple of smoke trails to me originating from behind the cowl. Regards, Allan Hi Allan, It's a strong possibility, but I can't be certain due to the shadows. One day some better pix will surface! Cheers, Dana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Howie Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Thanks Dana will fire off an email. Thanks Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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