F-4E Phantoms in Israeli Service: Decals, etc.?

[Kagemusha]

There were some attritional aircraft delivered in SEA camouflage during Yom Kippur, which had grey undersides, so maybe that's where that issue came from, but if you're doing a typical Israeli camouflage go with light blue undersides. 

[dodgem37]

Bill,

 

F-4E Phantom Kurnass in IAF Service, IsraDecal Publications, Part 1, Aircraft in Detail 4 by Ra'anan Weiss & Shlomo Aloni, page 90, states that the lower sections for 'Kurnass' aircraft are FS35622 Blue.

 

Above publication, same page, states that the lower sections for 'Toad' aircraft are FS36622 Gray, upper sections are FS30219 Dark Tan, FS34079 Dark Green, and FS34102 Medium Green.

 

The F-4E Phantom II Kurnass, The IAF Aircraft Series No. 1, by A. Dor, page 32, states the lower sections for Kurnass aircraft are FS35622.

 

Camouflage & Markings No.4, The Israeli Air Force, Part II, 1967 to 2001, by Ray Ball, Scale Aircraft Monographs, page 3, states the lower sections for Kurnass aircraft are FS35622.

 

All Kurnass colors are as Dave states.

 

During the Yom Kippur War (1973) Israel received direct USAF stock in SEA schemes.  These aircraft saw combat in this scheme.

 

The first four (of 44) F-4E Phantoms delivered to Israel was on Friday, Sept. 5, 1969.

 

The first Kurnass 2000 Phantom was declared Operational in 1989.

 

Wars for Kurnass:

War of Attrition, June 1967-August 1970 - US ordnance

Yom Kippur War, October 6-October 24, 1973 - US and Israeli ordnance

Operation Peace For The Galilee, June 1982 - US and Israeli ordnance

 

Sincerely,

Mark

[Dave Williams]

Vol 1 of the DU book states that the Kurnass factory scheme underside color is 35622. The 36622 is for the USAF attrition aircraft delivered in the SEA scheme. The painting instructions for the CE and Sky's Decals Kurnass sheets also specify 35622.

[ghatherly]

Gary, I will check for the book in other places. Amazon is usually fairly predictable about such matters, but not always.

 

Aside from camo patterns, is there a lot of difference between the DU book and this one I already have:

 

The Modern Phantom Guide: The F-4 Phantom Exposed by Jake Melampy.

 

Kagemusha, that looks like the right set! Thanks for clarifying.

 

Anyone care to explain the discrepancies between the underside colors (some reference gray, others blue)?

 

It looks like I don't need the IsraDecals sheets with the Sky one, correct?

Hey Bill,

 

The DU book is a specialty book just about IAF Phantoms and their history.   With it you get all of the tail number history for every jet, kills,   was it killed, etc.   Some were replacements for SJ's flight line and some were new from McAIr in St Louis. It has the references to the specific modes to IAF Phantoms, so instead of getting the History form the guys here you can read it for yourself and eliminate the confusion.   As for decals, Sky set is Unit markings and Insignia, and the roundels look correct.   The set has a few of the major stencils, but jut a few.    The isradecal set encompasses all of the stencils and panel numbers, and the format is done in a nice clear  grouping so that individual placement of each and every decal is not necessary.   What you place is a group of stencils and they are easy to install.   So technically you are correct in that you don't need the Isradecal set to make a finished model, but the Sky set you will need.   If it were me an I had to cut something, I would cut out the book, as I like the look of the stenciled airframe and early IAF F-4E's had lots of them form McAir.

 

FS35622 is the same, whether you call it gray, blue, don't worry about it.

 

Clear as Mud, right!

[dodgem37]

Thank you, Dave.  It was only after I read your post that I realized the 'Toad' and SEA schemes are one and the same.

 

Sincerely,

Mark 

[thierry laurent]

Thierry, what about pre-1973? Would the OOB ordnance in the Tamiya kit work?

 

As noted in another post, the DU books are out of my price range for a single build. The Osprey book might be more up my alley.

You may use Mk82 on TER and MER without problems if you want saving money. I simply refered to CBUs as they are not a common load on many planes and they were typically used for SEAD missions as well as emergency attacks against Egyptian infantry columns.

[thierry laurent]

I understand the budget aspect but the DU book is far more comprehensive. Look here for some reviews:

 

http://www.hyperscale.com/2009/reviews/books/airdocisraeliphantomsbookreviewab_1.htm

http://modelingmadness.com/scott/books/airdoc/doubleugly/uf4c1.htm

http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/ref/airdoc/book_airdoc_kurnass1.shtml

 

Note the first DU book is still available from the publisher for more or less 53$...

[Bill Cross]

Wow, a flurry of great posts overnight, Gents, thanks a million.

 

I will go with the blue underside, which I will likely weather lighter a bit anyway. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

I am looking to get the DU book.

 

I will proceed with the order of the IsraDecal stencils, though someone did say the 1970 birds had English stencils. If I don't use them, I can sell or give away the remainders.

 

Not necessarily looking to save money on ordnance, so much as trying to be sensible. I'm not familiar with anyone offering CBUs and don't know enough to get into any additional pylon issues. Trying to KISS (keep it simple, stupid).

 

Rounds complete!

[kap64]

Not sure if you're still looking for decals, but it looks like it being re-released. I can't copy and paste the link in this box, so check out 1001modelkits.com, item #SD32009.

[Bill Cross]

Thanks, I purchased this from Hannants. Don't know if it's the re-release or what. I think I'm good to go now.

[Lee White]

Years ago, Microscale did an Israeli Phantom with an enormous shark mouth on it- if that's what you're looking for, maybe you can find it on eBay.

[Bill Cross]

No, I don't think I'm looking for a shark mouth, but thanks!

[Luca]

If you want building a 73 war plane, you may use AMS cluster bombs as they were the most common load used by the planes at this time.

 

you mean these ones?

 

http://store.spruebrothers.com/product_p/ams32070.htm

 

they're Out Of Stock everywhere (sic!)

Edited September 12, 2016 by Luca

[thierry laurent]

Hi guys,

 

For your information, except jets painted in IAF camo in the US, all IAF planes painted in Israel with camo colors never used Federal Standard colors but similar but not identical paint hues complying with the German RAL system. This was the standard used by the local paint manufacturer (Tambour). Such colors were slightly different (more vivid green, brown with a red hue and slightly lighter sand). However the belly grey was the same than the FS one. All planes like Phantoms or Skyhawks were repainted after more or less five years of service with such colors. For a mysterious reason, this information is not well-known and the FS paint colors are always mentioned.

 

Hth

 

Thierry