Tony T Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 A long time friend of my family does warbird restorations here in Melbourne and you would be surprised how little of an original airframe survives even a static restoration, let a lone an airworthy one. Yes, I understand you just need some of the original manufacturers' data plates (engines/airframe etc) and a small percentage of the real thing, lots of love and patience, unlimited money and some skilled craftsmen, and you can re-create a 'warbird'. I don't think the Do 17 needs restoring to anything like flying or even taxying condition, but does merit a partial or total rebuild as a static display - eventually - even as a 'old half and new half'. Hope Cosford and Hendon come to some joint plan along those lines. I suppose they need to evaluate the airframe after it's been washed clean and corrosion neutralised. Which reminds me, must catch up with that Beaufighter at Duxford! Tony T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Checking out these closer photos of what was raised ... http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2013/06/14/dornier-17-bomber-ready-for-journey-to-raf-cosford/ looks fairly Scheissen Housen to me ... dunno what Revell could possibly measure out of that lot??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Thinking out loud, I wonder if anyone can go and look at it soon at COSFORD ..... Computer says no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradG Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Oh dear....I should have listened to my inner critic again but instead I was rather hopeful they would recover an aircraft in reasonable condition, but this thing is absolulety buggered; fuselage is broken, both wings broke, tail stuffed and I would take a guess that there isn't much left of the uppersurfaces and the corrosion is really bad (just look at how bad the centre fuselage is). If anyone thought they were getting a nicely rebuilt Dornier out of this fish tank ornament, think again. I'm not sure you'll be able to look at it for quite some time. The RAAF Museum here got a Spitfire (term used very loosely) that was dug out of a French beach and that was so bad they had to put it on the bottom of the harbour to stop corrosion during shipping and about 2 years later it's still in water and cannot be viewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanAugust Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Well hopefully they will be able to clean it up and preserve what's left of it. At least they're making the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennismcc Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Here's some more photos from Britmodeller Cheers Den http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234940737-do-17-recovery/page-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Yes, I understand you just need some of the original manufacturers' data plates (engines/airframe etc) and a small percentage of the real thing, lots of love and patience, unlimited money and some skilled craftsmen, and you can re-create a 'warbird'. I don't think the Do 17 needs restoring to anything like flying or even taxying condition, but does merit a partial or total rebuild as a static display - eventually - even as a 'old half and new half'. Hope Cosford and Hendon come to some joint plan along those lines. I suppose they need to evaluate the airframe after it's been washed clean and corrosion neutralised. Which reminds me, must catch up with that Beaufighter at Duxford! Tony T Nick Higham @highamnews @gordonrayner It won't be restored: too far gone for that. Merely conserved. So it's always going to look like that! #Dornier17 Apparently no restoration!! ... Which makes me ask: why spend all that money to salvage the darn thing????? I agree with you ... it should be stabalised ... measured throughout ... plans compared ... and then replace that which is kaput!! The RAF would then have the only Do-17z in the world on display (that was worth the trip to go and see!!!) in the same sort of condition as she would have looked prior to her last flight ... more to the point ... who's going to make our 1/32 scale now????????????????? Rog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradG Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) What they really should have done was take out bits that could be useful; props, engines, cockpit interior, wheels and canopy, throw the rest back for the fish then build a brand harry spankers aircraft. Cheaper, looks better and takes less time. Edited June 17, 2013 by BradG Hogzilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 Probably no restoration as its too expensive. The "conservation" will remove all the crud and sea life and take it back to metal. If they don't tread carefully the alu will turn to powder so its a long job. You can't make a "reproduction" (as lets face it there wouldn't be much of the original in there) without something to measure? Its been said before that no plans exist so how are you going to do a repro off the bat? I think people should accept that what came up is pretty much what will be displayed as per the Halifax at Hendon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artful69 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Probably no restoration as its too expensive. The "conservation" will remove all the crud and sea life and take it back to metal. If they don't tread carefully the alu will turn to powder so its a long job. You can't make a "reproduction" (as lets face it there wouldn't be much of the original in there) without something to measure? Its been said before that no plans exist so how are you going to do a repro off the bat? I think people should accept that what came up is pretty much what will be displayed as per the Halifax at Hendon. Well ... I guess we know that there will be no restoration ... as that's what we're all being fed. We know that conservation is a long process - 1.5-2 years according to the extensive media reports on it. We also know that what we're seeing now is pretty much what we'll be getting (minus a few barnacles and Channel bottom scum). I didn't know that it has been said before that there are no plans/blueprints for the Do17z ???? If that is the case I wonder how all of the 1/48 and 1/72 kits were made? ... Rog Edited June 17, 2013 by Artful69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 I didn't know that it has been said before that there are no plans/blueprints for the Do17z ???? If that is the case I wonder how all of the 1/48 and 1/72 kits were made? ... Rog Lots of experten have been saying it. I also wondered how they managed to produce kits of the thing in other scales. Personally I can't believe that there aren't plans somewhere knowing the German reputation for efficiency and documentation. Maybe we are being forced into only doing a diorama by some am manufacturer who has loads of 1/32 scale barnacles, crabs and lobsters in a warehouse somewhere. Its a conspiracy I tell Ye!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradG Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Ah don't worry about that Phil, lots of self appointed experten once said the earth was the center of the solar system too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssculptor Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 An expert has been defined as a person who knows more and more about less and less. The problem with rigid experts is when their income, self esteem and self image depends on their knowing so much about so little. Then, when as it often happens, his bank of knowledge is challenged by new discoveries his standing is challenged by the fact that he has to admit that his knowledge is no longer absolute, and really never was. It is better to keep one's mind open and try to resist making the "expert type" absolute statements. It is certainly better to resist the temptation to present the experts' statements as one's own. I find that egg is better in the stomach than spread on ones face. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssculptor Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 The problems with accurate original plans is there really aren't such creatures. An production item up to a certain point is an ever changing thing. Modifications are always being made to improve the product. With an automobile the design will be relatively "fixed" when assembly line production is underway. But even then one can find changes in some parts during the production run. It is much more flexible in the production of items under wartime conditions. Modifications are always being made to reflect the changing conditions of the battlefield. Also, the manufacturers have workable overall plans of the item, they make modifications but they do not always revise an overall drawing to keep up with the changes. You want accurate plans of the overall aircraft? Measure an existing aircraft that has not been modified. There are most probably overall plans that exist of the Dorniers that are close enough to the real thing from which one can make a model. I would expect that Revell has enough of these already. I'm sure they also have a library of old photos of the real thing. Perhaps they are waiting to examine the real thing so they can assure their customers that this new 1/32 model is the most accurate one on the market. Perhaps they do not want to invest the money into a new set of dies for the !/32 Do-17 at this time. When (or if) Revell finally releases their 1/32 Do-17 I'll buy one and I wont worry if the panel lines or number and location of rivets is absolutely correct. I'll just buy it and build it. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder_al Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 When (or if) Revell finally releases their 1/32 Do-17 I'll buy one and I wont worry if the panel lines or number and location of rivets is absolutely correct. I'll just buy it and build it. You and a few other thousand modellers, myself included Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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