Derek B Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 And olive drab... Mark Proulx Yes, indeed it was Mark...Started out OD/NG, but was repainted gloss black shortly within 6 months of service in the ETO (as were all OD/NG early P-61A aircraft). Cheers Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Derek: Not sure if I can go with you on this as to Lady Gen. I contend the OD scheme can be seen in Northrop P-61 Black Widow The Complete History and Combat Record on page 73. There is a clear difference between the black propeller blades and the fuselage sides and spinners. Also, scratches around nose access panels are in the same location on the aircraft at the time of this photo as those in the crash photos. The artwork as seen in this photo is also in the exact same location as the crash photos. In all the photos I have of this aircraft, a unique "v" shaped scratch is visible just below the "L" in Lady Gen on a forward access panel. I think if a repaint occurred, then scratches would appear differently. They are consistent. Of course, light could be playing with the images as it frequently does... Needless to say, I remain open to other opinions... Mark Proulx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Derek: Not sure if I can go with you on this as to Lady Gen. I contend the OD scheme can be seen in Northrop P-61 Black Widow The Complete History and Combat Record on page 73. There is a clear difference between the black propeller blades and the fuselage sides and spinners. Also, scratches around nose access panels are in the same location on the aircraft at the time of this photo as those in the crash photos. The artwork as seen in this photo is also in the exact same location as the crash photos. In all the photos I have of this aircraft, a unique "v" shaped scratch is visible just below the "L" in Lady Gen on a forward access panel. I think if a repaint occurred, then scratches would appear differently. They are consistent. Of course, light could be playing with the images as it frequently does... Needless to say, I remain open to other opinions... Mark Proulx Interesting point Mark. You have a crash photograph of this aircraft? - I would be interested in seeing that? (I do not have the publication that you mentioned). Certainly at the time of the D-Day invasion (6 June 1944) 'Lady Gen' was definitely in OD/NG as you have stated (with invasion stripes). I have not yet seen a photograph of this aircraft painted black, so the question is still open in this respect (i.e. Was it actually painted gloss black and still retained it's invasion stripes as depicted?). Other photographs of the 422nd NFS P-61A aircraft at the time of D-Day show a mix of OD/NG and gloss black aircraft. many (if not all) of the OD/NG aircraft were subsequently painted gloss black prior to them moving Belgium (This can be seen in the film footage of them whilst based there). You are right that it can sometimes be very difficult to determine if a P-61 is actually gloss black or OD/HG in some photographs due to the prevailing lighting conditions and the worn condition of the paint on some airframes which offers little or no contrast at all! Derek Edited June 28, 2013 by Derek B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rui Silva Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Hi all, I would like to model P-61B "Lady in the dark" but I'm a bit "in the dark" about some points: Did it have a fixed gun barbette or a movable turrett? I suppose as it was a late B a movable turret is correct. If it was fixed did it have gunsights for the gunner or radar operator? How common were the machine gun flash supressors, are they specific to the barbette, to the turret, A or B model or theatre of operations? Profimodeller has both options. I've seen several pictures of the Lady pin-up on the right side but only one on the left side, Zotz only supplies one Lady, is this correct? Thanks for your help, Rui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Williams Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Lady in the Dark had the fixed turret cover, not the movable turret. The gunsights for the gunner and RO would not have been there. The flash suppressors seem to be a bit uncommon in the pictures that I've seen. AFAIK, the nose art was only on the right side. Rui Silva and Derek B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rui Silva Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) Thanks Dave for your helpful reply. The P-61 was one of my father's favourite aircraft and I will certainly have a go at the HB kit. Happy modelling, Rui Edited June 28, 2013 by Rui Silva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 The artwork on Lady was only on the starboard side, there was another P-61 which had a cruder version of the female art on its port side, so maybe this is where the confusion comes from. The Zotz sheet will allow you to model The Lady more accurately than previously, note the ADF fairing on the profile which is located under the starboard boom, which no one else has picked up on - I'll post a photograph over the weekend. Also the red stripe around the nose, save where the Lady is located. If you are doing The Lady I recommend buying the B parts from Relish Resins http://www.relishmodels.co.uk/relish-resins.html - I have the props/spinners and exhausts which are very nicely done. There will be an ADF fairing with mounting fixture coming soon from Eclipse Model Design. Rui Silva 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rui Silva Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Hi Kagemusha, I've already bought the Relish Prop & Spinner set and ordered the turret and corrected nose. It seems that Vargas' pin-ups, like The Lady, were widely used and the picture we saw of the left side is of another P-61, I will stick to the scheme depicted in Zotz forthcoming decal set. Profimodeller also has an antenna set but I don't know exactly what it intends to be, any ideas? Thanks for your help,Rui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) The Profimodeller antenna are those mounted on the side of the aircraft, the detail will no doubt be sharper http://www.profimodeller.com/detail/p32157-p-61-antena-set/ The True Details wheels look a nightmare by the way http://forum.largescalemodeller.com/topic/932-132-northrop-p-61-black-widow-wheels/ there will no doubt be better coming along... Edited June 29, 2013 by Kagemusha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 The Profimodeller antenna are those mounted on the side of the aircraft, the detail will no doubt be sharper http://www.profimodeller.com/detail/p32157-p-61-antena-set/ The True Details wheels look a nightmare by the way http://forum.largescalemodeller.com/topic/932-132-northrop-p-61-black-widow-wheels/ there will no doubt be better coming along... The wheels/tires look OK. Why do you think they are bad. Not doubing you, just want to know...........Harv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 When ever I do get this monster, Lady is the one I want to build. It would be a great "bookend" to my P-38M "Shady Lady".................Harv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jozef Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 The Profimodeller antenna are those mounted on the side of the aircraft, the detail will no doubt be sharper http://www.profimodeller.com/detail/p32157-p-61-antena-set/ And they are really nice Jozef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 The wheels/tires look OK. Why do you think they are bad. Not doubing you, just want to know...........Harv You'll need to read the review in the link and the comments thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I read somewhere that you can use the Brassin B-25 wheels for the P-61. Not sure if that is true or not. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Well, I have a set of the True Details P-61 Wheels/Tires and they look ok to me. If the tread's a little askew, then I'll just run a proper width sawblade between the cleats and straighten em out. Hey, I got them for free (Sprue Brothers rewards program, thank you very much) and if it's free, it's for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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