F-86 0 6-3 wing - what options

[Scotsman]

I can't find  the original F-86 thread, and rather than open up the can of worms - I'm just trying to work out what options are open to me with the Kinetic F-86 with the 6-3 wing - specifically can an RAF Sabre be built from this kit. or if not what other markings would be appropriate for this kit , and yes I'm aware that this isn't the greatest Sabre kit #

 

ColinR

[Sabrejet]

You can build an RAF Sabre, but it will have to be a hard-edge version. Most squadrons flew these but not all (26 Sqn for example). You'll also need to get rid of the raised intake/vent panel at the base of the fin extension and add the two small vents on the fuselage side. So yes - go for it!

[LSP_Ray]

I thought the boxing with the German AF on the cover (Hartmann's F-86?) was supposed to be the Canadian Sabre version, assuming that was the same as the RAF version?

[Sabrejet]

16 minutes ago, LSP_Ray said:

I thought the boxing with the German AF on the cover (Hartmann's F-86?) was supposed to be the Canadian Sabre version, assuming that was the same as the RAF version?

 

The 'NATO' Kinetic kit is actually an F-86F-40, and not accurate for a German Sabre 5 or 6. It's even further away from an RAF Sabre 4. Kit manufacturers have done a great deal to confuse things when it comes to the F-86!

[MikeC]

10 hours ago, Scotsman said:

I can't find  the original F-86 thread, and rather than open up the can of worms - I'm just trying to work out what options are open to me with the Kinetic F-86 with the 6-3 wing - specifically can an RAF Sabre be built from this kit. or if not what other markings would be appropriate for this kit , and yes I'm aware that this isn't the greatest Sabre kit #

 

ColinR

 

Duncan Curtis's excellent book on RAF Sabres lists each serial number by squadron, and whether it had a slatted wing, a hard 6-3 wing, or both at different times (ie it was converted while in service).  IMO it's well worth investing in, I say that not as an advert, but as a mini-review.  Feel free to ping me a PM if you need any specific info.

 

Sabre wings are really not as complex as some people believe - certainly not as complex as Bf 109G sub-types, for example.  My understanding is this:

• The original wings: leading edge slats fitted.  Although these were free to move, there was a latch that worked when the aircraft was on the ground, so they could be pushed back and locked when the aircraft was parked.  So it would not be incorrect to depict a slatted wing Sabre on the ground with the slats closed.  Fitted to all models up to early F-86F models.
• The "6-3" wing, so called because the wing chord was extended 6 inches at the root and 3 inches at the tip.  The slats were deleted and wing fences added.  The root extension meant the wing overlapped the ammo doors, so a triangular section of root leading edge was removable to re-arm the guns.
• "F-40" wing: F-86F-40.  Fence deleted and slats reinstated.  There was also an extension (10 inches from memory) to each wingtip.
• Canadair Sabre 5/6: Similar to the F-40 wing, but with the wingtip extension removed. 

If I've made any major errors here, please say.

[Phantom2]

The Luftwaffe kit is the right one!

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/kinetic-k3203-f-86f-40-nato-sabre-6-3-extended-wing--107074

 

That kit is said to be a F-40 variant on the box, but you get the "normal span", slatted 6-3 F-30 wing and are supposed to add some additional pieces if you want the F-40 wing.

 

So you can build a slatted F-30 or a slatted F-40 from that kit.

 

I don´t know what you need to do for a Canadian version, tough, but I assume you can use this kit as a base.

 

Cheers!

 

Stefan 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Phantom2

[Sabrejet]

1 minute ago, Phantom2 said:

The Luftwaffe kit is the right one!

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/kinetic-k3203-f-86f-40-nato-sabre-6-3-extended-wing--107074

 

That kit is said to be a F-40 variant on the box, but you get the "normal span", slatted 6-3 F-30 wing and are supposed to add some additional pieces if you want the f-40 wing.

 

So you can build a slatted F-30 or a slatted F-40 from that kit.

 

I can´t say what you need to do for a Canadian version, tough, but I assume you can use this kit as a base.

 

Cheers!

 

Stefan 

 

A slatted 6-3 wing gives you a Sabre 6, not an RAF Sabre 4!

[Sabrejet]

1 hour ago, MikeC said:

 

Duncan Curtis's excellent book on RAF Sabres lists each serial number by squadron, and whether it had a slatted wing, a hard 6-3 wing, or both at different times (ie it was converted while in service).  IMO it's well worth investing in, I say that not as an advert, but as a mini-review.  Feel free to ping me a PM if you need any specific info.

 

Sabre wings are really not as complex as some people believe - certainly not as complex as Bf 109G sub-types, for example.  My understanding is this:

• The original wings: leading edge slats fitted.  Although these were free to move, there was a latch that worked when the aircraft was on the ground, so they could be pushed back and locked when the aircraft was parked.  So it would not be incorrect to depict a slatted wing Sabre on the ground with the slats closed.  Fitted to all models up to early F-86F models.
• The "6-3" wing, so called because the wing chord was extended 6 inches at the root and 3 inches at the tip.  The slats were deleted and wing fences added.  The root extension meant the wing overlapped the ammo doors, so a triangular section of root leading edge was removable to re-arm the guns.
• "F-40" wing: F-86F-40.  Fence deleted and slats reinstated.  There was also an extension (10 inches from memory) to each wingtip.
• Canadair Sabre 5/6: Similar to the F-40 wing, but with the wingtip extension removed. 

If I've made any major errors here, please say.

 

Good summary Mike: 12 inches on each F-40 wing though.

[Phantom2]

8 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

 

A slatted 6-3 wing gives you a Sabre 6, not an RAF Sabre 4!

 

Didn´t think of that....

 

Stefan 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Phantom2

[Chek]

I don't have my kits handy right now but seem to recall from a few years back that the F-86D kit has the regular span slatted wing and is interchangeable.

[Cheetah11]

57 minutes ago, Chek said:

I don't have my kits handy right now but seem to recall from a few years back that the F-86D kit has the regular span slatted wing and is interchangeable.

 

Not quite. The Kitty Hawk kit of the F-86D has the narrow cord slatted wing and the F-86K has the slatted extended chord and span wing. Neither correct for the Sabre 4.

 

Also one or more panels need to scribed  and as mentioned some vents added for the Orenda powered Canadian Sabres. Also check the cockpit colour and IP layout for the version to be modelled.

 

Nick

Edited May 10, 2022 by Cheetah11

[Sabrejet]

Most RAF Sabre 4s were delivered with the narrow-chord, slatted wing so the KH F-86D wing is correct!

 

Sabre 4s had the J47 engine, not Orenda.

[Sabrejet]

So in summary, in an attempt to clarify:

 

OOB = RAF Sabre 4 with 6-3 wing (later service + minor mods I listed above)

OOB + KH F-86D wing = RAF Sabre 4 (early service + minor mods I listed above)

 

To be completely accurate, the F-86D had leading-edge anti-icing (day fighter Sabres including Sabre 4 didn't), so there are a few duct access panels beneath the slats you should fill if you go the 'wing swap' route. Most won't notice. I've done this in 1/48 and the left-over wing can be narrowed in chord, slats scribed on (in the closed position) and you have a 'clean' slatted, narrow-chord wing you can stick on your F-86D! It will be a bit of a pain to do but I often see KH sprues for sale on that auction site, so you don't necessarily have to sacrifice a complete kit