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Hello all

 

At the moment I am working on Hasegawa P-47D and want to finished it as a mount of Maj Eaglestone which is in NMF.

Now I know that preferred way to prepare model for NMF is to do a gloss black primer.

I will use Vallejo Metal Colors for the project so I also got me their black gloss primer.

Now I use Vallejo matt primers for years now and never had encountered problem, until now with this gloss primer.

I did clean the plastic with alcohol before applying gloss primer and waited for more or less 24h. Than I tried some Tamiya masking tape on it and primer peeled off almost had a rubber feel to it.

I did try primer straight from the bottle and later with some valley airbrush  thinner but with same results.

So can I use any other primer or it has to be gloss black. Or prime with matt black and than put some gloss varnish over it..

Is it ok to use gray primer for base ??

Lots of questions but I know now why I did only one NMF during all this years lol.

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Have to say, the Vallejo primer for the metal colors was a huge disaster for me. Applied it over a lightly sanded build, should have been enough to give it tooth. Sprayed the metal color on, allowed to dry, then masked for panel painting. Pulled the paint and primer off. Not a little, a LOT!! Followed directions, allowed parts to dry 2 weeks, same results. At least it was easy to strip the paint... I have found using any other paint as a primer resulted in great results with the metal color. Will not hesitate to use the metal color paints as long as i DON'T USE THE VALLEJO PRIMER!!!!

Did this as a paint hulk to get the hang of the paint. Used Tamiya spraycan primer.

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Absolutely no pull up of the paint, just worked!!!

 

My primed P-38

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How easy the primer and color coat came off

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Don

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Unless you're trying to achieve a high-gloss finish, black primers and undercoats really aren't necessary for natural metal finishes. The only time I've found them useful (or that they even made a visible difference) was when using Alcad's Polished Aluminium. Otherwise, I'll just apply my preferred finish over grey Mr. Surfacer. Mind you, I often prime in black these days anyway, so that particular point is moot for me, but I don't see the need to do it reflexively just because you're using silver paint.

 

Your particular troubles, though, appear to be directly related to the Vallejo primer. Try Mr. Surfacer (they do a black) or Tamiya Fine Surface Primer (grey only).

 

Kev

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I did some tests on Vallejo Metal colors a few years ago. I sprayed 8 different shades over matte white, matte gray, matte black, and gloss black primer. What I found that gray was the worst, colors looked dull and non-metal like. Gloss white gave more metallic finish, but a stark oxidized look, not very reflective, but not too bad. Matte black definitely worked better for giving a nice tone, and gloss black was slightly better on the shinier finished, like aluminum, stainless, and chrome. My conclusion was that a semi gloss black is a good compromise to give it tooth, but not slick enough to let it peel under paint. These tests were done only with Model Air, Metal Air, and Tamiya metallics. 
 

I did not test any allclads or Xtreme Metal colors, but I am going to be doing more with the AK paints soon, so I am revisiting the tests. My plan is to try using Tamiya semi-gloss black thinned with Mr Color Leveling thinner, possibly MRP black, but I worry about the cost using MRP. If I tried to paint a B-24 in that, holy cow, that could be nearly $100 in paint!

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14 minutes ago, 1to1scale said:

I did not test any allclads or Xtreme Metal colors

 

In my review of AK Interactive's Xteme Metal colours, I did the following A/B test using grey and black base colours:

 

1510-20.jpg

 

And my comments from the review:

 

Quote

The first thing to note is that, apart from the Brass, the different primer colours had almost no discernible impact on the tone or reflectivity of the Xtreme Metal paint. And in the case of the Brass, it struggled to cover the black base effectively, and looked the worse for it.

 

Kev

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6 minutes ago, Lud13 said:

So basically I should be ok with matt black?

 

I wouldn't use matt black, no. Go with at least satin (semi-gloss), but gloss is even better. Even if you don't want a really shiny result, you still want a generally smooth finish, and I think a matt black undercoat or primer would compromise that goal.

 

Kev

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Hmmm, than I will put gloss coat over matt black since there is no way I will use Vallejo gloss black again

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6 hours ago, Lud13 said:

Hmmm, than I will put gloss coat over matt black since there is no way I will use Vallejo gloss black again

Nooooo....

 

Throw that Vallejo primer in the trash. Use some other semi-gloss. I personally do think that some paints have trouble “biting” gloss, but you need a smooth finish for the metal to get a good shine. So, a semi gloss Tamiya or, MRP, or Mr Color is a good choice. I have some, but as of yet, never tested the Badger Gloss Black. I just ordered some more Xtreme metal paints, so I am going to give it a shot.

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On 1/21/2020 at 1:44 PM, Lud13 said:

     Now I know that preferred way to prepare model for NMF is to do a gloss black primer.

 

Black is not required to base silver. I think it has become 'preferred' because Alcad recommends

it for their paints. I think the reason for that is that a gloss black surface is great for detecting

surface flaws. The surface finish is what changes the appearance of the silver finish. If you apply

a solid coat of silver, the base coat isn't going to show thru anyway. When I look at NMF a/c I see

more white in the reflectivity than black or dark colors. I primed my Mustang in MRP surface primer

and applied some disruptive greys and blues to break up the monotone. My point is, it's not the color

of the base coat, it's the surface finish from matt to polished gloss.

 

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hth

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