Lohner Tl Austro-Hungarian Flying Boat

[Tnarg]

OK, I have been gathering data for this one for decades, having built the masters for a kit in 1/48 scale for Lone Star about that many years ago. It was done with photos I obtained from Robert Stach in Austria and Peter Grosz in Germany, plus several good reference books. Lots of new information has come to light since then, especially the Windsock Datafiles and the restoration of L127 in Italy, with several walkarounds on the internet (thanks to all of you photographers). I think I have just about gathered all the information I will need to "do it right" this time.

 

There are a whole lot more interesting things available for this plane now, and they should make the build a lot more likely to get done. (one of my biggest problems is that short attention span thing).

 

Here is a list of the possible parts I am gathering:

 

Wingnut Wings:

Mercedes D.III engine

 

Taurus:

Valves, lifters and timing gear (resin)

Intake manifold nuts

Spark plugs

 

HGW:

Mercedes D.IIIa photo etched detail set (maybe)

 

Vector Cut:

Nuts

 

RB Productions:

Straight radiator mesh

 

Foto-Cut:

photo etched brass WWI sheets

includes nice Schwarzlose machine gun jacket and control wheels and assorted bits to play with

 

ICM:

WWI Austro-Hungarian infantry weapon and equipment (Schwarzlose machine gun in 1/35, which is likely close enough with the pe jacket)

 

Airscale:

Generic WWI Instrument Dial Decals

 

Basswood for creating the fuselage/hull

Balsa for wing cores

Sheet plastic to cover wings

 

I had a look at the photo etched sheet for the 1/48 Lone Star Models kit which I drew the art for quite a while ago, and realized that some of the parts were actually more near 1/32 scale, and maybe I can use them on this build.

 

References:

Die kuk Seeflieger - Peter Schupita

Osterreichs Luftfahrzeuge - Reinhard Keimel

Flugzeuge der Osterreichischen Firma Lohner 1909-1923 - Reinhard Keimel

Early Aircraft Armament - Harry Woodman (who I think did some or most of the art for the Foto-cut WWI pe sheets)

Windsock Datafile 99 Lohner Tl/Macchi L1 -Gregory Alegi

Windsock Datafile 127 Lohner Type M - George Haddow

Ministry of Munitions Report on the 180 HP Mercedes Aero Engine - 1918 (some parts are similar but this is the D.IIIa not the D.III)

Wingnut Wings Albatros D.V instruction manual (for the Mercedes DIII)

Vac Wings 72 instruction manual for their 1/72 scale Lohner L kit.

Walter Zelezny's personal account in Cross and Cockade (USA) volume 4 number 1 which was the inspiration for the build, along with the old Color Profiles of WWI Combat Planes by Giorgio Apostolo and Giorgio Begnozzi. Even with the color schemes that have mostly been proven a bit in error, this was the book that I wore out several times. I bought my first copy with the $25 dollars my aunt paid me to shave off my beard while I was a "rebel" in college in the early 70's.

 

This was the first plane to sink a submarine. L132 with Konjovic and Midshipman Sewera first spotted the Foucault when they were returning to their base in Kumbor, near present day Zelenika in Montenegro,Sublieutenant Walter Zelezny and Baron von Klimburg in L135 joined them and the hit the submarine with depth charges. It went down then surfaced and the crew abandoned ship. The pilots stopped to rescue the crew and officers, and the crew were taken by a torpedo boat to shore. The most interesting comment came from Zelezny's father, who said in a letter to his son:

"I am pleased with your success, especially as no mother will cry following the sinking of the French submarine and your rescue of all of the crew."

 

Only in WWI, one might say, but there are other stories like this, most notably the story of Franz Stigler, Charlie Brown and "Ye Olde Pub".

 

For now I'm studying the photos and plans and trying to reconcile them with each other. Next, try to figure out how to post photos and start on the engine, just to get something moving.

Tnarg

 

 

 

 

 

[SinuheH]

Now this will be interesting - keep us posted.

 

[LSP_Kevin]

Wow, ambitious project Grant! I've never even heard of this aircraft, much less know what it looks like, so I'm looking forward to learning more.

 

Kev

[blackbetty]

you bet i will watch this one closely! i have gathered info for building one of the later fighter flyingboats, like the A.68 i scratchbuilt many moons ago:

 

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=26131&page=12

[Tnarg]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. More photos to come, once I sign up for Photobucket and get some loaded.

 

Really interesting news, I had wondered about the cockpit of the Lohner and thought that there was no chance to see an original photo with much besides a very blurry old copy of a copy. However, I emailed the Italian Museo Storico A.M. in Vigne di Valle - Bracchiano and they sent a few photos of their restoration. Half the instruments are missing, but with what I do have in those poor quality vintage photos, I think that I can make something work. I asked them if I can post them, as I haven't seen them on the internet anywhere yet.

 

Here is a good collection of walkaround photos of L127, a slightly earlier version than L135, which I plan to do:

 

http://www.seawings.co.uk/lohnerwalkgal.htm

 

Like I said, most of the task now is just drawing out plans that work for the detail, looking at the old photos for clues as to what the details were. The plans of the full aircraft give a pretty good idea of the shape, but what did they do to route the aileron controls, where did the wires and fuel lines run on that fully exposed motor, etc. The Mercedes engine is up on a platform and pretty much takes all the attention, so I have to get that one right.

 

Tnarg

[Tnarg]

So I took another look at the Lohner book by Reinhard Keimel. I don't read enough German to be more than a little bit dangerous, but Google translate is my friend. The section following the plan of the Lohner Tl looks like it contains the contract conditions for acceptance of the aircraft. (pages 276 to 281).

 

The section on the seat describes the cockpit in general, calling out comfortable upholstered seats with unrestricted views to the front and below. It calls out 1 mm armor both vertical and horizontal for the seats and that they are staggered with the pilot in front of the gunner. It says that they are to be protected against wind and salt spray.

 

The sections covering instruments and controls calls out the following equipment:

 

Manometer (Pressure Gauge) with radium dial

Oil Pressure Gauge with radium dial

"Reducing Valve" (possibly the compression release handle as on the Mercedes D.III engine)

"All motor control lever" (or this is the compression release lever)

Complete "control cocks" (probably the various fuel switches on the instrument panet)

Machine gun pivot mount

Long inclinometer with radium dial

 

This set of equipment was to be provided by the aircraft supplier but paid for by the Maritime Administration:

 

Bohne Altimeter with radium dial

Aircraft clock with radium dial

Petrol/Benzine "watch" or gauge with radium dial

Welle Tachometer with radium dial

Lighting system

Compass

 

This set of equipment was to be supplied by the motor manufacturer:

 

Anlassmagnet - Magneto starter? looks like the Bosch magneto

Summeranlassvorrichtung - magneto switch, like the Bosch magneto switch?

 

I can see the Bosch magneto and switch on the motor mount structure, on the level just below the motor.

 

So the next thing to reconcile is the fact that the Lohner in photos doesn't really match this description. Each of the photos shows something different. I'll post some more later. Still researching, but it is getting clearer.

 

Tnarg

[KOTR]

Anlassmagnet - Magneto starter? looks like the Bosch magneto

 

'Starter magneto' from the order of words, though I don't know what that would look like or work...

 

Summeranlassvorrichtung - magneto switch, like the Bosch magneto switch?

 

Summer starting device.

 

Don't be afraid to ask if you need a translation, as Google translation are sometimes a form of art...

[Tnarg]

Thanks for the help on translation.

 

I've had the books for a long time, but mostly looked at plans, tables and photos. Those don't need much translation. I have too many books in languages that I can't read, but they have some very interesting photos and information even without that option.

 

Having spent too many decades on the Lohner trying to "get it right", it needs to come off the back of the shelf and get moving.

 

Tnarg

[KOTR]

It sure is an interesting airframe. Looking forward to it :-)

[Derek B]

So unusual, so nice...I look forward to seeing this come together Grant.

 

 

Derek

[Tnarg]

OK, let's do something old, but new for me; post a photo. This is a test to make way for more. This is a photo I obtained from Robert Stach in Austria of a side view of L131 and I used it to develop the plans I drew for the Lohner or to compare with the other plans I found.

 

 

Tnarg

 

Edit: Looks like that worked, so time for some more.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Tnarg

[Tnarg]

Next, here is a photo, the only one I had with any detail of the Lohner interior back 20 years ago. I got a copy of this photo from Peter Grosz, who was an amazing resource and a real gentleman, a fountain of information. This is a close up of the instrument panel and cockpit of L126 according to the information on the photo.

 

 

You can see some interesting switches and rectangular switch plates with a bar sticking right out from the panel where they mounted the compass. That was directly in front of the steering wheel/stick, and would really "put your eye out" if you had a bad landing.

 

Tnarg

[Tnarg]

Another photo, this time of the motor mounting and more interesting detail. This photo came from Robert Stach also.

 

 

Note the magneto on the lower platform below the motor (Mercedes D.III 160 HP) and the switch just in front of that.

 

Tnarg

Edited August 29, 2013 by Tnarg

[Tnarg]

I told how I wrote to the Museo Storico AM (Vigne di Valle) and asked about any cockpit photos they may have had. Sanetti Fabrizio from that organization sent me these four photos and gave permission to post them as long as the source of the photos was given (Italian Air Force Museum, Vigne di Valle). This clears up some things and raises more questions.

 

 

 

 

Thanks so much to him and the museum for these details.

 

Tnarg

[radial]

Hope you sort out the PB thing as I would really like to follow your scratch building techniques.