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Hobby Boss P-61B out

Dave Williams

By Dave Williams
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planeart

planeart

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If you don't mind resin kits, you're in luck. F7U-3M Cutlass

Dear LSP typhoonattack,

Thank you very much for the info! I was aware of Fisher patterns but i did not know they had a Cutlass in their range! I'll have an ''investigation'' in this kit, althought i am not really kean with resin kits!!

Thank you anyway!! :clap2:

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Derek B

Derek B

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Well, not having a photo hosting account...

 

For one example, P-61B "Our Panther" of the 548th NFS. See Osprey Combat Aircraft #8 P-61 Black Widow Units of WW2 page 75 for photo. Given as s/n 42-39428 there and further s/n support on page 491 in Deny Them the Night Sky. Aircraft clearly has the large gear doors of the "A" variant.

 

That s/n in Northrop P-61 Black Widow by John and Donna Campbell on page 138 identifies this aircraft as a P-61B-2-NO.

 

The above investigation partially responsible for my earlier posting.

 

Mark Proulx

 

Thanks Mark - I'll have to check that out.

 

Cheers

 

Derek

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LSP_Kevin

LSP_Kevin

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Dear LSP typhoonattack,

Thank you very much for the info! I was aware of Fisher patterns but i did not know they had a Cutlass in their range! I'll have an ''investigation'' in this kit, althought i am not really kean with resin kits!!

Thank you anyway!! :clap2:

 

Hi Kostas,

 

There a two builds in the WiP forum at the moment, which you might like to check out:

 

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=33464

 

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=41251

 

Kev

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Derek B

Derek B

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Posted (edited)

I noticed that the issue of the gear doors on the P-61B raised here. I agree that they are more towards the P-61A than B. However, photos that I have studied seems to show the full span gear doors from the P-61A were carried by the early P-61B's. Perhaps the change incorporated during the "B" production run? Anyone confirm my suspicion?

 

BTW, as I am sure most are aware, the upper turret when fixed on the P-61B was a slightly different shape then the norm as provided by Trumpeter. This would be more appropriate for Lady In The Dark.

 

Mark Proulx

 

Hello Mark,

 

I examined the photograph that you mentioned on P.75 of the Osprey book and a larger image of the same picture in the Black Widow Chronicles book and I am not convinced that it actually is a P-61B Black Widow. My first impression is that we are looking at a P-61A here and not a P-61B. The aircraft serial number cannot be discerned due to the reflectivity of the aircraft's gloss paint finish and being obscured by the ladder (I also noted that the four 0.5" Browning machine guns had been removed from the upper turret).

 

The grainy nature of the photograph makes nose radome panel lines details impossible to see with any clarity, and although the nose does look like a P-61B nose from that acute angle, it may have been distorted and lengthened by lens distortion. Again, the impression to me is that the nose is a painted plexiglas/metal radome, which lends further weight to the possibility of this aircraft being an early P-61A Black Widow.

 

It was not uncommon to transfer nose art from one aircraft to another or even one aircraft variant to another, so perhaps this specific nose art was worn by two different types of P-61 Black Widow?

 

Other photographs of this aircraft from side-on would absolutely confirm whether this aircraft was a P-61A or B as well as providing serial number correlation.

 

Best regards

 

Derek

Edited by Derek B
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Mark P

Mark P

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Posted

Derek:

 

The serial number is posing a problem for this aircraft, as it does for many Widows, as I am sure you are no doubt aware. That is why I mentioned it from two different references. I wish I had a photo showing it!

 

I am not sure if you have the book, Deny Them the Night Sky, but on page 252 (as well as many others) there is a perfect side profile of the nose displaying its nose art with extended radome. Sorry, but I don't have photo hosting capability.

 

Mark Proulx

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planeart

planeart

Posted
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Hi Kostas,

 

There a two builds in the WiP forum at the moment, which you might like to check out:

 

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=33464

 

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=41251

 

Kev

Dear Kev,

Thank you so much! Sorry to mention that cos this suppose to be a topic dedicated to new 32nd Hobby Boss P-61 Black widow model, so texting about the F7U Cutlass might be out of subject! But really thank you very much!! :yahoo:

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Derek B

Derek B

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Posted (edited)

Derek:

 

The serial number is posing a problem for this aircraft, as it does for many Widows, as I am sure you are no doubt aware. That is why I mentioned it from two different references. I wish I had a photo showing it!

 

I am not sure if you have the book, Deny Them the Night Sky, but on page 252 (as well as many others) there is a perfect side profile of the nose displaying its nose art with extended radome. Sorry, but I don't have photo hosting capability.

 

Mark Proulx

 

Mark,

 

I look forward to seeing the photograph (I guess that you have sent it to my work e-mail address? - I do not have the book 'Deny them the night sky', but it sounds good). I have just spent over four hours looking through what I do have and I have now revised my conclusions somewhat.

 

Looking at dozens of photographs of all P-61 variants, and P-61B in particular, I have discovered something that I had not noticed before. There appears to be two different forward main leg door designs on the P-61B Black Widow aircraft.

 

As we know, the P-61A Black Widow has two large single-piece main wheel doors that remain open when the main gear legs are locked down, and only close when they are locked up. The P-61B has articulated or multi-part doors - the two small forward door panels around the strut and leg tube remaining open whilst the remaining two door halves aft of the leg closing after the main gear is locked down, only to open and close again to allow the main leg to lock up.

 

The forward outboard section of the main leg doors on the P-61B is quite distinctive, as it has a small square portion that extends down below the main leg centre line door joint (forming what is in effect an 'L' shaped door). I was looking specifically for this on the photograph of the 'Our Panther' but could not see it. Instead, all I saw was what appeared to be a continuous door like the P-61A (I call this the 'short' door on the P-61B).

 

However, looking at many other P-61B photographs, it looks like a small selection of P-61B aircraft had split forward doors that were the same shape and depth as the remainder of the rear portion of the doors - I now believe that this is what we see with 'Our Panther' (the aft main doors had drooped or 'bled down' in a similar manner to P-51 inner gear doors, as these are hydraulically operated on P-61's, using torque rods to mechanically close them, thereby making them look very much like P-61A doors). The only place I really noticed these 'short' forward doors were on the 547 and 548 NFS and a few post-war aircraft. Why these doors differ I have no idea, but it may have been a temporary very limited modification until the full later P-61B doors were developed perhaps?

 

In addition to 'Our Panther', I have also found at least two other P-61B photographs that show the aft doors of P-61B's ('Mackay' and an FT-2) open. These are normally closed, so they have either been opened for maintenance (there are eight oxygen bottles mounted just aft of the main undercarriage bay inside each tail boom nacelle), or they opened of their own accord over a period of time.

 

My conclusion here - and I would need further evidence for this - is that these P-61B forward MLG short doors were a first attempt at achieving main door closure behind the legs. However; it appears the these forward doors at least were quickly modified and simplified to the more common later 'L' shaped door that we see on the majority of P-61B aircraft.

 

 

5th_Fighter_Squadron_Northrop_P-61B-10-N

P-61B showing the distinctive 'L' shape of the forward opened main gear door portion.

 

547th_Night_Fighter_Squadron_-_P-61_Blac

In this picture of P-61B 'Swing shift skipper', you can see that the same door is a simple rectangle shape of what I term the 'short door' without the extra small square portion below it.

 

dadwplane.jpg

Rear view of the 'short' door. You can also see the smaller fixed square strut door in this view.

 

P-61b-42_39403_-The_Spook_-_548th_NFS.jp

The 'Spook' also has them.

 

4533333469_435fa4660c_o.jpg

'Lady in the dark' also appears to have them as well.

 

p61+%2310+%232013.jpg

Another one - This time a post war F-61.

 

6197049092_ed0d4b4c40_o.jpg

Finally, a USN FT-2 Black Widow with the normal 'L' shaped P-61B type forward main leg doors illustrating that the aft doors did not always remain closed. They may have been opened for maintenance or have simply drooped open under gravity.

 

Derek

Edited by Derek B
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