LSP_Matt Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Great project Matt, Will be looking on with interest. Very excited. I see there are some more fellows thinking about to build or "plastinate" paper kits. May I suggest a "paper to plasic" groupbuild for the near future? I'd say definitely got a massive burst of enthusiasm from Matt with his build here. Would love to see how he goes and learn some of the tricks and pitfalls before launching into groupbuilds. Something like a Hughes racer. Already wondering though...how do you skin compounding curves on wings, fusleages? Oh Matty...I did wonder if you had contemplated scaling the plans to 1/32. When it comes to radios, wheels, tyres, instrument panel guages, engines, MG barrels and bombs it might allow a raiding of the parts bin...or is 1/33 close enough to fudge? Looking forward to more Cheers Matty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssculptor Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Great project Matt, Will be looking on with interest. Very excited. I'd say definitely got a massive burst of enthusiasm from Matt with his build here. Would love to see how he goes and learn some of the tricks and pitfalls before launching into groupbuilds. Something like a Hughes racer. Already wondering though...how do you skin compounding curves on wings, fusleages? Oh Matty...I did wonder if you had contemplated scaling the plans to 1/32. When it comes to radios, wheels, tyres, instrument panel guages, engines, MG barrels and bombs it might allow a raiding of the parts bin...or is 1/33 close enough to fudge? Looking forward to more Cheers Matty Hi Matty, I have plans for building a few of these paper conversions. Scaling from 1/33 to 1/32 is very easy if one has access to a copy machine that does ratios in the 0.00 range. I just set the enlarging ratio at 1.03 to get 1/32 scale. Also helpful is the use of a copier that prints onto ledger size paper (11" x 17") in the USA. The major advantage of making models from paper card to plastic or wood or copper is that there are sooooo many airplanes available in paper at 1/33 scale that are not in 1/32 plastic kits. The temptation to build these paper card models is enormous for just that reason. I plan to solve the problem of making compound curves by adding filler on both the inside and outside and filing and sanding to get the shape I need. The only problem I have now is finding the time for a hobby. Although I retired in 2003 I am now working a 40+ hour week with two part time jobs. I do not think I am doing this retirement thing correctly. Stephen Alburymodeler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big matt Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 Thanks for the inspiration Jeff! More pressure, that's just what I needed. Stephen, I have been adding plastic and wire and shapes of this and that to all my builds over the past couple years including a major conversion on a 110. What is new is starting from scratch. I am looking forward to the challenge. Mainly, I just enjoy building plastic airplanes and this was a chance to build something that is pretty much unavailable. Matt, I decided that the size difference was not worth the effort. I still plan on raiding the spares box for certain goodies and am pretty sure it won't be a problem. I regularly run into scale discrepancies in 32nd kits and figured that small percentage was not worth worrying about. As far as the skin. That's going to be an issue. Putty is a problem in quantity and not my favorite medium. It has it's place but I prefer styrene. I have some ideas but need to try them on a built section to see what will actually work. My first choice would be to skin the plane as they really did it. The leading edges are another issue. I made some leading edge slats for my 110 with very thin aluminum and has considered that. We will see how it goes. Peter, I did treat myself to a fine German wheat last night. Well, two actually... Just playing around with shapes got me here. Thanks to Derek and his white spirits suggestion, I save a TON of time in cleanup. The score and snap did not work so well on my previously cut parts but will give it a try on the next batch. The wings have a LOT of pieces. The loose collection here is about 90% of what needed to be made. Still a bit of work and figuring to go. That's it for now but it took a while to get there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) Looking good Matt I once made a 1/72 AEW Mk.3 Gannet vacform master pattern for Aeroclub many years ago using a method similar to this (according to John Adams, it had to be broken up to release it from the mould...he said that it resembled an air crash! ). I have a suggestion for you if I may?... Skinning...Many ways to skin this particular cat (pun entirely intended!). It all depends upon what you feel that you will be most comfortable with, and your level of experience. I do not think that you have mentioned what thickness of plastic card you are using? (1mm/.040" or less?). Although thin plastic card is easier to manipulate - the temptation here being to find something close to the cardboard/paper sheet thickness - it is less forgiving during handling. Unless you have a fairly solid sub-structure, you will end up with distinct areas of skin sagging between frames and formers as you handle the model. It is much better to use thick strips of plastic card and 'block-in' the areas between the frames and formers - this will give you a much more solid skin to work with without adding much of a weight penalty (this is chiefly the reason wht many modellers wish prefer the use of balsa wood cores - although a hard foam would work equally well - on their plastic frames to skin). BTW, Milliput filler (or similar) would work if you apply flat sheets of plastic card just inside the fuselage former/frames (obviously not the cockpit areas), score andor drill them a little to allow the filler some purchase, then sand it to the fuselage contours - a workable compromise for sheet skinning and weight? (it is also quicker, but more difficult to detail/scribe...you'd need to build up layers of paint to a good thickness and scribe that instead...so many options! ). HTH Derek Edited August 19, 2011 by Derek B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peterpools Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Matt Progress at it's best and I am really impressed how you are digging into the project. I'm glad you enjoyed a few glasses of a fine German wheat last night. Sure steadies the nerves. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big matt Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 "I'm glad you enjoyed a few glasses of a fine German wheat last night. Sure steadies the nerves." Peter, cutting and pasting sure is thirsty work! Derek, thanks for the suggestions. I know you have had more than your fair share of experience in this area. I do want to stay away from any putty as it is darn near impossible to scribe. I like some of your other ideas and need to practice a bit. I have some ideas too and I hope I can get something to work. Thanks for reminding me of the pitfalls of too thin a selection of plastic sheet. Here we are. I had a bit of a free afternoon and actually got to glue some stuff. I'm glad you enjoyed a few glasses of a fine German wheat last night. Sure steadies the nerves. The pieces went together quite well. I did make sure they conformed to the templates and did a lot of sanding. The right wing is actually pretty stiff. I have plenty of room for extra supports and can make more ribs as well. The modular construction of this paper kit seems to lend itself to a pretty rigid design. I hope. Next up is the other wing and then we tackle the center section and bomb bay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomek Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) Looks very promising! I don't know how this tip will be helpful, but some paper modelers laminate pieces of extra cardstock between ribs and spars to prevent sagging on the wings . Here I didn't do in every possible place, but I hope that will suffice to illustrate the idea: I don't quite understand why it works so well, since not the whole surface of the wing is extra laminated, only these empty spaces between ribs and spars. Cardstock is way more delicate, and sagging is a constant problem. If it works in my medium why the same principle wouldn't work in case of plastic? I'm thinking aloud here, but I really think it's worth investigating. Cutting pieces of thin styrene and gluing them into the skin form the inside seems much simpler and quicker solution than adding additional ribs (which by itself is not bad idea at all, I think). Very interesting!!! :popcorn: Edited August 20, 2011 by Tomek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allok Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Superb! I love it, Matt. I considered doing this several times myself but the amount of work involved, my pathetic model building skills and the large number of new releases appearing made each project look pointless. Even the Vacs in my stash are likely to be superceeded before I get to drag them out. Good on you for getting into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peterpools Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) Matt Like the saying says; Progress is our most important product! Enjoying your steady progress and keeping us in the loop is all the fun. Keep 'em coming. Peter Edited August 20, 2011 by Peterpools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big matt Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 Tomek, that looks to be an interesting way to go about the skin. The sagging is a problem in plastic as well. I do intend to make some stringers for the wing to stiffen things up a bit but the structure is sound. I still have a few pieces yet on the wing which will help also. The rear spar is not even on at this stage. I had some issues understanding the kit plans but have it sorted now, I think. The skinning is going to be a major dilemma and I have so many ideas in the hopper that I think it best to wait a while and concentrate on the internals. One of my most perplexing problems is how to duplicate panel lines on a very thin sheet of plastic. I have a few thoughts but need to visualize it better. For anyone who is interested, I am doing my best to duplicate the paper kit card thicknesses exactly. This keeps the assembly on track and minimizes the use of that old devil, math. I can see the need to increase tolerances in certain areas but they are becoming apparent after layup. This is, so far, a remarkable paper kit. Hey Keith, I too have been kicking around the thought of a project like this. No time like the present, or the future. I find myself now looking at paper kits and wondering what the next big release will be. Ironic. Thanks for checking in Peter! No beer last night though, gotta ride today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peterpools Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Matt That's the way to go. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Well, well, I go away for a few days and come back to find a complete scratchbuild going on. I am astounded and in awe my friend! Least this wont be one of your rapid builds!!! Tomek, that looks to be an interesting way to go about the skin. The sagging is a problem in plastic as well. I do intend to make some stringers for the wing to stiffen things up a bit but the structure is sound. Could always use thin aluminium sheet? No beer last night though, gotta ride today! I thought those bottles of Boddies would fit the water bottle carriers on your bike? Bolt a bottle opener on the bars and Hey Presto! better than water! Seriously though, this is going to be interesting to watch. Bravo for having big enough brass one's to tackle this one mate! Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geedubelyer Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) Hi Matt, I have to confess I skipped this build intitally as it was: a/paper and b/a prop. Don't I feel foolish Little did I know what I was missing. I'm fascinated to see how this turns out. Now you've got me thinking. I've always wanted to attempt a complete scratch build but never had the knowledge. Perhaps this method might just be a way to begin. Does anyone know if there is a paper version of either a dH88 Comet, dH Rapide or in particular, a dH Chipmunk? I'll be sure to book mark your build Matt and drop in regularly to see how she's shaping up. Keep up the good work. Edited August 20, 2011 by geedubelyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomek Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) Does anyone know if there is a paper version of either a dH88 Comet, dH Rapide or in particular, a dH Chipmunk? If Matt doesn't mind, here's an answer from one of resident paper modelers . I'm only aware of the Chipmunk, which was published by WAK (click to see details). The kit is nice with good fit, I hear, but not that detailed as you can see in the case of the Helldiver. OldTroll may know more about others. I'm waiting patiently for your update, Matt! Edited August 21, 2011 by Tomek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geedubelyer Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Thanks for the link Tomek, the Chipmunk looks good and gives me food for thought. Apologies for briefly sidetracking your thread Matt. And now, back to your regularly scheduelled programming.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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