P-40N exterior color dilemma; ANA 613 or 41?

[LSP_K2]

The instructions for the fündekals P-40N (Lulu Bell) call for ANA 613 OD, which is, I believe, absolutely correct. The Zotz sheet, however, simply calls for OD on the scheme below (not the scheme depicted from the decal sheet, but from an Osprey book). While the profiles provided by Zotz look like the same dark OD ANA 613, how can I confirm if this is correct or not?
 

 

[D Bellis]

According to the Curtis factory blueprints, the upper surfaces were to be painted "Olive Drab, Shade 41".

 

The overall blueprint:

 

The pertinent excerpt from the center of that print enlarged:

 

Also possibly of interest is that the decking under the rear canopy behind the pilot was also Olive Drab (NOT the interior green so often seen on models):

 

HTH, 

D

[Juggernut]

Wasn’t OD 41 replaced with ANA 613 in or around 1943?

[D Bellis]

1 hour ago, Juggernut said:

Wasn’t OD 41 replaced with ANA 613 in or around 1943?

From https://history.army.mil/museums/Arms-and-Ordnance/documents/Policy-Sop/Ordnance/US_Army-Aircraft-Paint-Color-Guides.pdf

"ANA 157 Revision (28 Sep 1943)
 On 28 Sep 1943, ANA 157 came into effect, and this standardized the colors used by both the Army and the Navy. Due to the wartime rush to manufacture aircraft these changes were not in widespread application prior to early 1944.

 

ANA 157 impacted Army aircraft by slightly changing the two primary camouflage colors. Accordingly, Dark Olive Drab 41 was superseded by ANA 613 Olive Drab and Neutral Gray 43 by ANA 603 Sea Gray."

 

From https://www.uswarplanes.net/p40prodlist.pdf

 

42-104429 / 42-104828 P-40N-1-CU              400             Mar43–May43

42-104829 / 42-105928 P-40N-5-CU             1100             May43–Aug43

42-105929 / 42-106028 P-40N-10-CU             100             Aug43

42-106029 / 42-106405 P-40N-15-CU             377            Aug43–Sep43

42-106406 / 42-106428 P-40N-20-CU              23             Sep43 

43-22752 / 43-24251 P-40N-20-CU                1500            Sep43–Jan44

 

At the very least, only some of the N-20 batch and later might have been 613. The profile in K2's post shows what is definitely an N-5 that was produced months before the change was written, let alone implemented. 

 

HTH,

D

[LSP_K2]

Curious that the ailerons never got the medium green, but the elevators did.

[LSP_K2]

Also of interest to me, are the two thin black lines on the wings, which I have seen before.

[MikeC]

Well I've always painted the rear vision bits of P-40s the same as the exterior, based on both photos and logic, but this is the first time I've seen documentary proof that it's the official requirement. Thanks for posting that.

 

 

[CRAZY IVAN5]

I think I read somewhere that shade 41 would have some rather significant color shifts due to the fact that they discontinued putting Cadmium in the mix to stabilize it , I don't know how that works [ been a looong time since I was in chemistry class]. Cadmium being in short supply and the need for olive drab paint in large amounts far outstripping the amounts of Cadmium available at the time. Mission Models MMP-091 makes a shade 41 and True colors does ANA 613, both look good to me. Mr.color makes 3 different versions of O.D. C12 for U.S. aaf aircraft , C38 for U.S. armor, and C304 which gives a F.S. number 34087 [??] None of them [Mr Color ]calls out ANA613 or shade 41 

[D.B. Andrus]

My understanding is there was so much OD 41 in the system that the use of ANA 613 was rarely seen in use before 1945. OD 41 tended to be a more greenish shade than the later brownish ANA 613, accounting for variables in manufacture of paints, of course.

 

Cheers,

Damian

[CRAZY IVAN5]

2 hours ago, D.B. Andrus said:

My understanding is there was so much OD 41 in the system that the use of ANA 613 was rarely seen in use before 1945. OD 41 tended to be a greenish shade than the later brownish ANA 613, accounting for variables in manufacture of paints, of course.

 

Cheers,

Damian

There's that and from I've read P-38s that were deployed to North Africa the paint would shift to a "purple- ish color [yeee] due in part to the Cadmium not being added to the mix in the shade 41, I 'm quite sure even the ANA 613 olive drab shifted around a lot too. Kind of like trying to "nail down" the real olive drab is like trying to nail Jello to the wall.