Revell Hawker Hunter - Swiss J-4013

[amurray]

9 hours ago, Derek B said:

 

What you say Art sounds technically correct and makes sense. I will investigate further for boundary layer outlets.

 

Regards

 

Derek

 

Thanks!

[amurray]

7 hours ago, Derek B said:

Hi Art,

 

Good images from Carsten. Looks like the auxiliary bypass slots are covered over by spring loaded doors, and not plated as I originally thought. I could not find any really good images of the intake boundary layer outlets, however, given the angles of these upper and lower outlets, it would strongly suggest that the internal boundary layer splitter must be bifurcated in some manner? How this would look configuration-wise is anyone's guess, as it looks like it is part of the internal fuselage structure (you would need copies of the original Hawker drawings or a detailed aircraft repair manual to determine this).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It has been an interesting education for me, which will help me later with my own model. Good luck Art.

 

Derek

 

Derek,

 

I really appreciate your efforts and hope I can return the favor some day.

 

If ONLY we had an ex-Hunter ground crew member in our group!  

 

I found a website of a group in CA and VA that supposedly has 20 Hunters in service.  I'll call them to see if I can be put through to someone on their grounds crew.

https://www.atacusa.com/mk-58-hawker-hunter

 

[amurray]

"In for a dime, in for a dollar!" 

 

While I'm at it I might as well detail the automatic air bleed ducts and doors.  Sometimes they are open in flight, other times not.  Sometimes they are open while taxiing, other times not.   

[Smeds]

I am an ex Armourer, I worked on Hunters F.6, FGA.9 and T.7's at RAF Brawdy in the early 80's.  The doors just aft of the intakes were spring loaded. The ground crews used them to secure canvas FOD covers in place with bungee's.

[amurray]

13 hours ago, Smeds said:

I am an ex Armourer, I worked on Hunters F.6, FGA.9 and T.7's at RAF Brawdy in the early 80's.  The doors just aft of the intakes were spring loaded. The ground crews used them to secure canvas FOD covers in place with bungee's.

You reference the automatic air bleed ducts.  They are well documented.  I need the structure of the boundary layer air ducts.

 

Many thanks.

[amurray]

Kopecky Scale Models flare dispensers roughed in.  EXCELLENT resin pieces!

 

 

 

I didn't have to reshape the kit pieces as much as I feared.

 

Air bleed duct cut outs started.  I'm not going to open the doors on the wing surface because the design of the wing is such that it would be very difficult.  But one will be able to see the ducts in the air intake.  The doors were open in very few photos, so IMO I'm on solid ground.  The ducts are visible in the air intakes.

 

[amurray]

Well, I finally got my answer on the boundary air layer duct.  It penetrates the wing but NOT the intake.  That means I have to go back to patch the intake openings I made for the boundary air layer ducts.  Also, trashing the intake splitter was a bit of a mistake but it is misshapen and my change to its profile is more accurate.

 

AARRGHH!!!

 

 

[NOTE:  THIS POST WAS LATER SHOWN TO BE INCORRECT.  SEE BELOW.]

Edited January 7, 2024 by amurray

[CarstenB]

10 hours ago, amurray said:

Well, I finally got my answer on the boundary air layer duct.  It penetrates the wing but NOT the intake.  That means I have to go back to patch the intake openings I made for the boundary air layer ducts.  Also, trashing the intake splitter was a bit of a mistake but it is misshapen and my change to its profile is more accurate.

 

AARRGHH!!!

 

do you have some pictures?

[amurray]

15 hours ago, CarstenB said:

do you have some pictures?

Derek's excellent close-up photos of the air intakes above show the automatic air bleed ducts but not boundary layer air ducts opening into the air intakes.

 

Understand that I am solely going on the basis of the knowledge of others.  I have zero firsthand knowledge of this aircraft.  I consulted the head of the F-35 structures engineering group and separately a career Naval Aviator.

Edited March 20, 2023 by amurray
Clarification

[SwissFighters]

On 3/20/2023 at 11:17 AM, amurray said:

Derek's excellent close-up photos of the air intakes above show the automatic air bleed ducts but not boundary layer air ducts opening into the air intakes.

 

Understand that I am solely going on the basis of the knowledge of others.  I have zero firsthand knowledge of this aircraft.  I consulted the head of the F-35 structures engineering group and separately a career Naval Aviator.

 

 

Hi Art, I've been reading your thread with real pleasure and thank you for the hint for the chaff dispensers! Regarding the boundary layer air ducts, both above and below the wing (four in total), they definitely open only into the area between splitter plate and fuselage. The photos above should show this clearly enough but I also recall checking as I took the photos. The top picture is looking forward from below the right hand wing. In the bottom picture you can see the same bottom duct (looking aft from within the air intake) and light shining through the top duct on to the inside of the splitter plate. I hope this helps you definitively resolve allowing the project to continue! Tony

[Derek B]

Great images Tony - Thank you (they confirm exactly what Art and I thought very clearly).

 

Regards

 

Derek

[Derek B]

On 3/20/2023 at 12:17 AM, amurray said:

Derek's excellent close-up photos of the air intakes above show the automatic air bleed ducts but not boundary layer air ducts opening into the air intakes.

 

Understand that I am solely going on the basis of the knowledge of others.  I have zero firsthand knowledge of this aircraft.  I consulted the head of the F-35 structures engineering group and separately a career Naval Aviator.

 

Well met Sir! I was (and now, am once more) involved in the military aviation industry (over 34 years now). I am also ex-Royal Air Force.

 

Derek

[amurray]

On 12/9/2023 at 7:01 AM, SwissFighters said:

 

 

Hi Art, I've been reading your thread with real pleasure and thank you for the hint for the chaff dispensers! Regarding the boundary layer air ducts, both above and below the wing (four in total), they definitely open only into the area between splitter plate and fuselage. The photos above should show this clearly enough but I also recall checking as I took the photos. The top picture is looking forward from below the right hand wing. In the bottom picture you can see the same bottom duct (looking aft from within the air intake) and light shining through the top duct on to the inside of the splitter plate. I hope this helps you definitively resolve allowing the project to continue! Tony

 

Tony,

 

Outstanding pix that should be included in any reference material on the Hunter!  I have had my Hunter masked and ready to paint but have held off hoping for the info you have now provided.  I think the way I have finessed the issue is consistent with your photos.  The BAD NEWS?  I no longer have an excuse not to move forward!  

 

I have photos of work to date but have a lot of catching up to do.

 

Thanks again!

 

Art

 

[SwissFighters]

8 hours ago, amurray said:

 

Tony,

 

Outstanding pix that should be included in any reference material on the Hunter!  I have had my Hunter masked and ready to paint but have held off hoping for the info you have now provided.  I think the way I have finessed the issue is consistent with your photos.  The BAD NEWS?  I no longer have an excuse not to move forward!  

 

I have photos of work to date but have a lot of catching up to do.

 

Thanks again!

 

Art

 

No problem - it is my pleasure to share them! Looking forward to seeing how the work progresses.

[amurray]

Off and running yet again, . . . , and again, . . . , and again, . . .

 

Flare dispensers are installed.  My concerns above were justified but the fix was actually quite easy.  These are a great addition to the kit.

 

 

 

Primed and ready to paint: