P 38 wheel well color

[alain11]

Hi 

 

as the title say : what color for the P 38 J ( NMF) wheel well ?????????? It seems to be aluminium , or unpainted ??!!!! Am I right ??? 

any docu to strengthen my thought??????

thank 

Alain

[Lee_K]

Early P-38s up until into the F production run had aluminum lacquer wheel wells and landing struts. In response to the aluminum shortage of 1942, Lockheed switched to Neutral Gray wheel wells and struts through the G, H, J, and some of the L production blocks. You can see this in Kodachrome color photos of Yippee! (the 5000th Lightning built) and later. In the late J and early L runs you can occasionally see a return to aluminum lacquer struts and there is some evidence of Chromate Yellow being used in the wheel wells just before the end of the line.

 

For me, the general rule of thumb is to use Neutral Gray for a camouflaged aircraft and also for natural metal Js and early Ls. later Ls would be an educated guess.

[alain11]

Thank you sir!!!!!!!

Alain

[hayaman]

Although the wells are not in view since the doors are NM (judging by their shine),i guess the wells will be too Edited June 9, 2015 by hayaman

[BiggTim]

Although the wells are not in view since the doors are NM (judging by their shine),i guess the wells will be too

 

Very cool, I had no idea this video existed! The P-38 I am building will be one from the 428th FS. A good friend of mine was asst crew chief on the plane I will be doing.

[Lee_K]

At the 7:15 mark in the film, it looks pretty clearly to be Neutral Gray struts and inside of the nose landing gear door.  Also at the 3:00 minute mark there is another Lightning that looks to my eye to be Neutral Gray.  I do admit it can be hard to tell due to lighting and the slight tonal differences between silver lacquer and Neutral Gray lacquer paints.

 

As always with interior colors, educated guesses are often the only recourse.  What we don't see in these color films is 1. Interior Green, or 2. Chromate yellow.

[alain11]

Hi

 

 

 

thank you for sharing this video ......To bring grist to the mill , I found this .The last sentence is interesting too

Alain

 

( words from Mr  TC in LA)

 

"P-38s never had Interior Green or Yellow Zinc Chromate wheel wells. Up through the P-38G, the wheel wells were aluminum lacquer. From the P-38H through the P-38J-15 (even the P-38J 10s and 15s in NMF) the wheel wells were Neutral Grey. From the P-38J-25 through the P-38L they were unpainted aluminum.

I realize this has confused modelers, so this isn't presented as a criticism of the model, which is indeed nice, but is presented for further information for future projects.

I used to know the pilot of "Virginia Marie", Bob Anderson, who was a professional photographer all his life (and took his camera with him to war, which is why the 475th FG is so well-documented), when we were both hanging out on the pylons on the back of the course at Reno back in the 70s. "

 

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Edited June 10, 2015 by alain11

[Lee_K]

Tom's guide is generally correct, but I have some clear color photos of a P-38L-5-LO with Neutral Gray landing struts and wheel wells, so exactly when the Neutral Gray transitioned back to aluminum lacquer is not quite as exact as Tom professes in the J production run. I'm sure this has to do with Lockheed bringing up a second production line for Lightnings and using up what was already in the pipeline. As I have learned with all US interior color discussions, there are no absolutes. Barring unmistakeable period photographic evidence, one has to make a judgement based on a number of factors, including the E&M manuals and other manufacturing correspondence and documentation. From there, it is an educated guess. I think you are pretty secure to paint your model with either Neutral Gray or Aluminum lacquer. Certainly no one will point at your model and scream "That is wrong!" Or, at least I hope they don't.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Lee_K

[alain11]

Hi Lee

thank you for your input .....the same request has been made on an other forum , some guys immediately said IG ( of course ) ,as the instruction sheet said that , as restored P 38 bays were often painted with this color etc..... they wondered why almost all if not all US aircraft had their wheel wells painted IG , or YZY expect the P 38 ??????? They deducted it's a nonsense ................

Alain

Edited June 11, 2015 by alain11

[skiner]

Qu'est que tu nous fabriques Mister? Un doute t'habite?

What are you doing Monsieur? .......................?

[hayaman]

At the 7:15 mark in the film, it looks pretty clearly to be Neutral Gray struts and inside of the nose landing gear door.  Also at the 3:00 minute mark there is another Lightning that looks to my eye to be Neutral Gray.  I do admit it can be hard to tell due to lighting and the slight tonal differences between silver lacquer and Neutral Gray lacquer paints.

 

As always with interior colors, educated guesses are often the only recourse.  What we don't see in these color films is 1. Interior Green, or 2. Chromate yellow.

At 3.00 there s no strut showing,at 7.20 (where the d.snoot s showing) i d say the strut is most likely NM judging by the upper part s shine,for the lower part you should put into account the (brownish)dirt that probably gives it the grayish tone-still guessing though-cheers

[STM]

On 6/10/2015 at 4:55 AM, alain11 said:

Hi

 

 

 

thank you for sharing this video ......To bring grist to the mill , I found this .The last sentence is interesting too

Alain

 

( words from Mr  TC in LA)

 

"P-38s never had Interior Green or Yellow Zinc Chromate wheel wells. Up through the P-38G, the wheel wells were aluminum lacquer. From the P-38H through the P-38J-15 (even the P-38J 10s and 15s in NMF) the wheel wells were Neutral Grey. From the P-38J-25 through the P-38L they were unpainted aluminum.

I realize this has confused modelers, so this isn't presented as a criticism of the model, which is indeed nice, but is presented for further information for future projects.

I used to know the pilot of "Virginia Marie", Bob Anderson, who was a professional photographer all his life (and took his camera with him to war, which is why the 475th FG is so well-documented), when we were both hanging out on the pylons on the back of the course at Reno back in the 70s. "

 

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It is a very slipper slope to use Cleaver as an authoritative reference for ANYTHING. He is a legend, but only in his own mind.