marauderdriver Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 The thing that most people say is that it takes to long to do. There is no substitute for a great nmf, whether it's foil or paint. Most really nice alclad finishes come down to 1 panel at a time treatment as does using foil. to me it's easier to fix a foil boo-boo then an alclad boo-boo. I have seen beautiful painted nmf's, but on personal inspection and most photos it still looks like paint Nothing looks like metal than metal, but I kinda hope people keep painting theirs as it makes ours stand out. Ever tried to put a "grain" on a painted panel?? You can also tone down the shine with clear satin (Micro-Scale). When I got the nerve to try it (21st Century P-47) I gave all my alclad to a friend and will never do a nmf in anything but foil. Mark 31 never did a foil job until about a year ago, and now he is a FOILING FOOL and has done some outstanding work. Brian, Maybe we should do a couple of foiled Broncos just for fun. Out2gtcha, mark31 and williamj 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark31 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) Its like marauderdriver says. It take a long time to do but the finnish is so nice. Almost a year ago i didt my firt one in the foil and learnd a lot. Now im doing a B-25 and it will not be the last one to do. Be patient my friend and you wil love it. Mark Edited March 26, 2015 by mark31 marauderdriver and Out2gtcha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Very good points all around. Foil and metal sheet are wonderful alternatives to paint, and as was pointed out by Jack, the graining that appears on most NMF is impossible to make in paint, and IMHO the graining in foil has a really realistic look to it, that cannot be mistaken for paint. mark31 and marauderdriver 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark31 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Here a few pics of my foid plane. My first try on foil. The second one. The third one. And the one im working on at the moment. So you see not that hard at all. Mark D.B. Andrus, Out2gtcha, Rainer Hoffmann and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggTim Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 I just got through reading through the Dixie Boy build thread, and I really intrigued with this. I should be able to get back onto my Trumpy P-38 soon, and while I had been planning to use Alclad Duraluminum for the heavily oxidized NMF, I am now seriously considering foiling it (after some practice, of course). I am not totally sure how to go about weathering/oxidizing a foil finish, though. Can you guys point me to where I might learn some more about that? Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) The egg wash treatment is a great way to avheive that really worn look. Graining and adding a wash yo the egg wash foil is also a good way up add wear and tear. Edited March 26, 2015 by Out2gtcha BiggTim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggTim Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Here a few pics of my foid plane. My first try on foil. The second one. The third one. I really like how you did this old oxidized MiG. How did you acheive that look? Rainer Hoffmann 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark31 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 put the foil in a container with bleach that will give that effect. If you going to do this do it out side and the foil no longer dan 4 hours in the container. Mark marauderdriver, Rainer Hoffmann, BiggTim and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggTim Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Mark, Did you spray a matte clear over it when you were done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Mark, Did you spray a matte clear over it when you were done? Im not sure how Mark does it, but thats a no, no for me personally. Clear is great and even preferred in some circumstances, but IMHO it really ruins the look that the foil achieves. Clears over foil look better to me than clears over metallic paints, but it still to my eye, drastically changes the appearance of the foil, and not in a good way. Ive used flat to effect on the type of finishes Mark demonstrates with his Mig-21, but as a rule I try not to clear foil. Paint on the other-hand, is very useful over foil. If you clean and grain the foil right, enamel sticks very well to it. I know this as fact from direct experience. The foil in that situation also works great with chipping, as you can use your favorite technique (read salt method, chipping fluid, mask fluid) to apply directly to the foil, and paint over it, then remove the medium laid down previously and presto! you have a very realistic chipping effect. PREP, PREP, PREP is everything with foil, and Id have to assume similar with pewter type sheeting. Foiling can indeed be a major challenge. Its definitely not for everyone. With practice, and learning various techniques, you can get a finish unlike any paint that is, or may well ever be..............thats a long time, but as is pointed out foil is in fact metal. Paint in its current form will just never be metal. Conforming the said 2D form to those dreaded compound/complex curves is the largest challenge faced IMHO. Learning and practicing with foil and the myriad of techniques for applying everything from the glue to how its applied, to what and how much to lay at any one time, to calculating seems and their shapes................it can get quite involved, but to me is REALLY worth the effort. marauderdriver and BiggTim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 As Mark pointed out, the bleaching solution can be used to "dull" the foil to that dead flat sheen.................but it is effectively removing a few microns of the foil for every x amount of time you leave it in the solution, so be careful (havnt calculated any times yet, just ususally go by feel). The bleach formula that Mark mentioned can be altered with varying amounts of lead from shot gun shot, and/or copper from pennies, and you can get the rainbow from dead flat titanium looking foil, to bright green, to bright red (there is an "eggwash" piece of foil peaking out from under the multi colored foil in the upper left hand corner) : When you start applying that foil in appropriate areas depending on wheather you want a titanium/gray looking foil or a bright multi-colored look, you can achieve a look that no paint ever IMHO can achieve: marauderdriver, Vandy 1 VX 4, BiggTim and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggTim Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Dang that is so cool looking! And I gotta say, the fact that metal is metal, and paint is NOT metal really has me convinced. I see some major experimentation with chemicals coming in the very near future. That kinda sounded bad. marauderdriver 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderdriver Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Hey Guy's, I think we have Bigg Tim hooked....just reel him in slowly and he will join us on The Dark Side !! The chemicals are easy, bleach, pennies and lead fishing sinkers in all combinations for various colors. Boiled with eggshells, with or without clear, satin, flat coats. I put the Micro Scale Foil Adhesive on the model panel as opposed to the foil with a slightly damp soft 1/4 in flat brush, minimum strokes, cleans brush in water while adhesive dries (no white color), place foil on panel and burnish from the center out. I use the make-up applicators that look like a Q-Tip with one end that is kinda flat for burnishing the foil down as the wood burnishing tool will mark the foil if you are not REAL careful. I grain the foil with 0000 steel wool or sometimes 600 to 1200 sandpaper. Then trim the foil along the panel line and burnish the foil down into the panel line with a wood tool. I find a lot less waste of adhesive and foil by applying the adhesive to the model. I also work one panel at a time. Practice is the key and don't be afraid of trying. You will get the hang of it and wonder why you waited so long. I also bought a 100 count Stanley Utility Knife Blades because you will go thru quite a few blades then you trim the foil. A dull blade will tear instead of cut the foil. Welcome the The Dark Side Bigg Tim. Jack Edited March 27, 2015 by marauderdriver williamj, BiggTim and mark31 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Boillot Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) I also found out that alcohol is better than water to clean the brush or remove glue residues ... But save that Bourbon for gathering courage before you start foiling ;-) ... Hubert Edited March 28, 2015 by MostlyRacers mark31, marauderdriver and Out2gtcha 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark31 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Whatch out when you are going to foil. Its a adiction now im looking for planes that i can foil :wicked: Mark williamj, marauderdriver and Derek B 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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