1/32 British Phantom FG.1/FGR.2 conversion for the Tamiya F-4J?

[Guest]

Were they for the Revell kit?

 

Harold, yes, the Verlinden was for the Revell. And I was wrong about Master Details......Harv

[Derek B]

I have a question for those who may be able to access the correct information out there? I have been trying to establish the correct figures for the jet pipe and compressor fan diameters for the Rolls Royce Spey 203 engine. The (on-line) soureces I have checked thus far seem to have conflicting figures, so I would be very grateful if someone can confirm the correct dimensions for me please? (I can probably assess the jet pipe diameter reasonably well from drawings and photographs, but I certainly need to know the the engine fan diameter?). There seems also to be a consistant engine length, which I am assuming is the length of the engine itself without the engine afterburner module, but I shall need to check this out.

 

Many thanks

 

Derek

[Harold]

Hi Michael,

 

Obviously, should I go ahead with this - and it is looking more likely given the feedback so far - costs, both to you and me, would be important. However, I hope not to do this at the expense of quality, so I shall seek to attain a balance that will be satisfactory to the majority of modellers out there.

 

Cheers

 

Derek

Good luck Derek, if anybody can pull it off, you can.

Harold

[Derek B]

Good luck Derek, if anybody can pull it off, you can.

Harold

 

Thank you Harold

 

Derek

[BloorwestSiR]

Hi Derek,

 

I will try to get some pics of the rest of the F-4G conversion parts from the CE set and the TAC Scale one for you. I'll be over to the workshop tomorrow and will try to get some shots then.

 

With the F-4E kit out, at least you won't need to do a complete nose, just the chin pod if converting the Tamiya kit so that should help a bit.

 

As far as my build goes, I've only gotten so far as the chin pod and the slatted wing. I just ordered the Reid Air book on the F-4 since PhasePhantomPhixer said the CE IP isn't correct. Hopefully there are some decent photos in there. Not sure if I'm up to a scratch built IP, but at least I'll see how much different it is.

 

Carl

[LSP_Ray]

I didn't do the RF-4C radome..did someone else do it?

Avionix/Black Box did a RF-C nose for the Tamiya kit, maybe that is the one they are talking about. It looks quite good, too.

[Derek B]

Hi Derek,

 

I will try to get some pics of the rest of the F-4G conversion parts from the CE set and the TAC Scale one for you. I'll be over to the workshop tomorrow and will try to get some shots then.

 

With the F-4E kit out, at least you won't need to do a complete nose, just the chin pod if converting the Tamiya kit so that should help a bit.

 

As far as my build goes, I've only gotten so far as the chin pod and the slatted wing. I just ordered the Reid Air book on the F-4 since PhasePhantomPhixer said the CE IP isn't correct. Hopefully there are some decent photos in there. Not sure if I'm up to a scratch built IP, but at least I'll see how much different it is.

 

Carl

 

 

Great Carl ...Every bit of good reference is useful to me.

 

Thanks

 

Derek

[BloorwestSiR]

Just a thought though. Since there are already so many AM bits for the Phantom already- Isracast slatted wing, various seamless intakes, ejection seats and burner cans, maybe just do the chin and tail pods, the other relevant antennae and IP for the G conversion? Should help to keep your cost and work down and no need to duplicate what's out there.

 

As long as the other stuff stays available of course

[Harold]

Harold, yes, the Verlinden was for the Revell. And I was wrong about Master Details......Harv

Thanks Harv..

[Dave Williams]

The CE -G conversion had a couple of issues, in my experience. First, you had to buy two sets, the slatted wing conversion and the -G conversion with the nose and other -G specific bits. Second, for the -G conversion, this was before the Tamiya -E came out, so you got a whole nose to convert the C/D kit. All of the CE gun noses that I ever got, including the ones for the -E conversion I had, plus replacements from CE, were too small in diameter to match up with the cut Tamiya front fuselage. I think this was a problem in the mold or due to resin shrinkage, and wasn't due to just getting a bad one as I ended up with 4 or 5 of them and they were all that way. For the slatted wing conversion, CE molded the slats only in the deployed position, which was quite rare on the ground.

[Derek B]

The CE -G conversion had a couple of issues, in my experience. First, you had to buy two sets, the slatted wing conversion and the -G conversion with the nose and other -G specific bits. Second, for the -G conversion, this was before the Tamiya -E came out, so you got a whole nose to convert the C/D kit. All of the CE gun noses that I ever got, including the ones for the -E conversion I had, plus replacements from CE, were too small in diameter to match up with the cut Tamiya front fuselage. I think this was a problem in the mold or due to resin shrinkage, and wasn't due to just getting a bad one as I ended up with 4 or 5 of them and they were all that way. For the slatted wing conversion, CE molded the slats only in the deployed position, which was quite rare on the ground.

 

Hi Dave,

 

Very real assessment - thank you. I understand that resin shrinkage can cause the part to become undersized when offered up to a kit, which is sometimes exacerbated with RTV shrinkage (which does happen) or use of 'sub masters' ('first generation' resin castings used as secondary master patterns). Estimating how much larger the master patterns have to be in order to allow for mould and resin shrinkage is something of a black art - there are no hard or fast rules. You can take the resin and RTV mould rubber manufacturer's specifications for material shrinkage as a guide line, but that is all that you can do, as the actual material shrinkage varies greatly in reality.

 

I have to think of it this way; if I were to convert the Tamiya F-4E into a G and had to buy all of the various separate AM items to make it happen, how satisfied would I be with the quality of the various parts, and how much work would I need to fit them? Assuming the parts do not clash on fitment (requiring unforseen modification of the parts and/or kit), and the parts are not undersized and the quality of them is good, then I would hope for a fairly straight forward and enjoyable build...but rarely happens in reality.

 

By making one specific and detailed conversion kit, I can concentrate on co-ordinating all of the various components. They will all be to the same quality and the overall cost should be competitive because there will be no need to source multiple components from various suppliers in order to make the conversion. So it makes sense to me to produce a single conversion set that will do the whole thing in one harmonious job.

 

Regards

 

Derek

[BloorwestSiR]

Hi Derek,

 

Not having actually seen the CE slatted wing conversion set in person but having read about how much a PITA it was to use, I have to say the Isracast one is very straightforward. You have to fill in some panel lines on the the inner lower wing, re-scribe some and then add the actuators. The outer panels line up perfectly with the kit wingfold hinges and are not out of alignment as they sometimes are on the CE wings (again, from seeing other builds that have used them).

 

Here's the Isracast parts:

 

 

And the actuators installed on the lower wing:

 

 

I think there may be some more filling and/or re-scribing required.

 

As far as gathering things from separate manufactorers, the good thing is there should not be any issues with interference from one set to another. The closet any two sets would come to one another would be if you used seamless intakes and one of the full resin cockpit sets but even then, there should not be any sort of interference or space conflicts. Unless you've done something really wrong...

 

Dave's comments about the CE replacement fuselage being narrow is correct. It was one of the reasons I tried making my own using the Tamiya nose.

 

The CE nose is in the background and mine is in front.

 

 

I still have a ways to go so might just wait for someone with better skills to do it justice. So please hurry up with your set

 

Carl

[Iain]

Back to Brit Phantoms - been meaning to have a go at one for years (Ark Royal FG Mk 1 is a *must*) but put it on hold due to rumours from the far east - even have a 'J' fuselage sat there waiting to be cut up.

 

Prolly wouldn't buy a full conversion - but would certainly be interested in a pair of Spey exhaust cans as that's probably the hardest part to get right - rest is just plastic sheet/filler...

 

Iain

[Anthony in NZ]

Hi Derek, Great news on the Spey Phantom.

 

Usually I only build with a NZ theme, but the FGR Phantom is one I have always wanted to build as an exception.

 

I cant help with refs sorry

 

Cheers

Anthony

[Derek B]

Hi Derek,

 

Not having actually seen the CE slatted wing conversion set in person but having read about how much a PITA it was to use, I have to say the Isracast one is very straightforward. You have to fill in some panel lines on the the inner lower wing, re-scribe some and then add the actuators. The outer panels line up perfectly with the kit wingfold hinges and are not out of alignment as they sometimes are on the CE wings (again, from seeing other builds that have used them).

 

Here's the Isracast parts:

 

 

And the actuators installed on the lower wing:

 

 

I think there may be some more filling and/or re-scribing required.

 

As far as gathering things from separate manufactorers, the good thing is there should not be any issues with interference from one set to another. The closet any two sets would come to one another would be if you used seamless intakes and one of the full resin cockpit sets but even then, there should not be any sort of interference or space conflicts. Unless you've done something really wrong...

 

Dave's comments about the CE replacement fuselage being narrow is correct. It was one of the reasons I tried making my own using the Tamiya nose.

 

The CE nose is in the background and mine is in front.

 

 

I still have a ways to go so might just wait for someone with better skills to do it justice. So please hurry up with your set

 

Carl

 

Great pictures Carl, and very useful (thanks)...your kit nose looks very good indeed

 

The Isracast parts look good as well, and are probably similar to the sort of thing I would do.

 

Cheers

 

Derek