LSP_Kevin Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Kevin, What do you suggest as a method to reduce their visibility? I thought about sanding the entire area down but that causes other issues. I also considered filling them in but would like to leave them some what visible. Barry I really have no idea mate. I've seen people fill the rivets on the Dragon Mustang (especially on the wings), but that's a mild undertaking compared to this. You could try some heavy primer coats to reduce their effect, but you'd probably need to redefine some of the panel lines afterward. My gut feeling is live with it, as I'm sure the close-up photography and intense lighting make them look worse than they really are. I didn't mean to make you feel bad about them mate - you're doing a great job on this kit and the rivets certainly take nothing away from that. Kev Uilleann 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Kevin, No ill feelings, I agree the photo does make them stand out. Even though I have noted on most of Trumpeter's efforts the rivets are too deep. I struggle with rivets and panel lines in general no matters whose kit. Being that my job is in the manufacture of modern business jets. I see and deal with rivets and panel lines daily and most models and modelers cause them to be over stated. We hold our flush fasteners to -.002 to +.003 to flush. I believe some of these on the kit may actually exceed those tolerances. Our panel seams (lines) must be .080 to.125 max. Again most kit lines are in excess of that when scaled out. I appreciate yours and all others inputs they only serve to help me improve. Thanks Barry A couple shots outside my office. Derek B and Uilleann 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 The aircraft in the photos 1st one is a Gulfstream G450 and in the 2nd is a G550. I get aircraft 24/7 and I love my job and hobby!!!!!!!!!!! Derek B and Uilleann 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think Paul Budzick has the best possible method for panel lines, with his technique of scribing over the paint/decals. That has the added advantage of allowing you to chose the color of the panel lines (by chosing primer color) that works best given the final paint colors and type of weathering on the aircraft. Anything molded into the plastic, even on 1/32 scale aircraft, is going to be grossly overscale. Having said that, I have never tried this technique. Just because Paul can do it sure as hell does not mean I can do it...... The main reason I have never bought a Trumpeter kit is because I cannot stand their rivets. Maybe I should say "holes". They do not resemble real rivets in either scale or appearance. I think the MDC rivet tool, or something that works similarly, makes the most realistic rivets. On a Trumpeter model you would have to fill in all the rivets and then do them one at a time (maybe after paint also) with the MDC tool. Lot of work, but would probably look awesome. I talk a good game, but I have never done any of this. Too lazy...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Bryan, I agree with your take on it most models rivets and panel lines in any scale are too large. The reality is most would not be visible at all when viewed with respect to scale distance from the subject. I think is especially true with aircraft built using more modern techniques say from the mid 50s on. I really struggle with the need to give the model the appearance of being “built” of individual panels yet not have them look “out of scale”. I have considered filling them all in then using Mike Grants rivet decals for the natural metal areas. This way they would be visible but have no visible dimension. I think they would look much more realistic. I only wish Mike would make them in several different metallic shades. I will study Paul’s technique and see if I can follow it. I have several different riveting tools including MDCs. I read an article in FSM several years ago where the modeler drew panels lines on and his technique was extremely effective especially on natural metal finishes. I appreciate your input and will continue to look for a “better” way to depict rivets and panel lines. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Penciled panel lines.... I wish you could see them better, but these were taken 15 years ago......Both of these were articles on the Fury conversion and scratch built (almost) Testors F-5C. Part of the text was about the lack of scribed panels and rivets. Derek B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 Thanks Harold, There just has to be a better way and so far the drawn on lines look much better in my opinion. I remember that I saw this technique used on a 1/72, C-5A and it looked nice. As I see; it is not just the width of the panel lines but the depth as well like the rivets it is the depth that just kills them. Barry Harold and Derek B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Thanks Harold, There just has to be a better way and so far the drawn on lines look much better in my opinion. I remember that I saw this technique used on a 1/72, C-5A and it looked nice. As I see; it is not just the width of the panel lines but the depth as well like the rivets it is the depth that just kills them. Barry Exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcauchi Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I have never seen a better scribing technique than Paul's. the only thing is that there is no room for error since you are scribing over something that is finished. The marking and execution of the lines has to be precise and to the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 And there in lies the skill that I am not sure I have. Barry Harold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbetty Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 judging by the work you did until now, i think there is no doubt you can do it i´m following with great interrest and take notes for my marine F8 Harold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 I appreciate you confidence in my abilities I try hard to constantly improve them. I have been working on the Arresting Hook and Well. The arresting hook itself is anemic and needs to be beefed up. The kit well is lacking in detail although I am not going to display the hook in the down position I have taken the opportunity to continue sharpen my skills. Hope to have more pics to post later today or tomorrow. I’m having a blast!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark64 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Hi Barry. Following your build closely. You are doing a fantastic job. Those scoops looks very realistic. Its official my next build will be the Crusader in the French version. Thanks for the inspiration. Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted July 3, 2009 Author Share Posted July 3, 2009 Oliver, Using your Huey as the measure your Crusader should be a real show stopper. Here are a couple of links to French Crusaders. Barry http://frenchnavy.free.fr/aircraft/crusader/gallery.htm http://frenchnavy.free.fr/aircraft/crusader/walk-around.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark64 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Hi Barry. My wife got me a French book only on French CrusaderS. It has some many photos. Thanks for the site. OLIVER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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