Trump 1/32 P-40 panned

[jbrundt]

See: http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/allies/...eaver32p40b.htm

 

I know this a 'hot button' issue with a lot of modelers (especially here on LSP) but would any one care to comment/rebut Mr Cleaver's assertations?

 

I have the P-40 kit right now but I may wait for aftermarket resin based on his observations.

 

Jeff

[ChrisS]

Great review.

 

I would have liked some referance photos to compare, but even at face value the review seems fair and level-headed. I did take a special interest in this comment:

 

I notice that the branch of aircraft modeling that seems to have the largest percentage of “thank-you-thank-you brigade members” among its ranks are the people devoted to building these bigger models.  Perhaps its due to the fact that - until the release of the Tamiya Zero, and the Hasegawa Bf-109s and Doras - they seemed lucky to have any models at all to build, let alone anything accurate, so that they have gotten into the habit of being happy with whatever bones get thrown to them.  My recommendation to these folks is, “the squeaky wheel gets the grease.”  Modelers do not have to accept crap just because that’s what’s there.

 

This is a tough one to swallow, but I must whole heartedly agree with the reviewer here. Wether or not large scale maniacs (like myself) can recover from the vast "wasteland-turned-paradise" that is the large scale market, before choking to death on the feast remains to be seen. But the fact remains that in 1/48 you choose from 5-6 Tomahawk kits, with a huge variety of accuracy and engineering and that gives folks in that market a mindset that cannot be ignored. If a kit comes out that is not status quo, a modeler simply takes his P-40B cash and goes elsewhere. However in 1/32 there is only one choice, and it is important to note that it is also the first injected moded P-40*B* ever produced for mass market. While getting that kit delivered to the market perfectly would be great, getting it delivered at all is a start.

 

We are still very much in the honeymoon with Trumpeter, and while she may burp and fart more than we'd like, she services often and that alone is worth bathing in for a while. I must admit I'm afriad she'll run away if I ask her to shave her legs. Is that wrong? Maybe, maybe we should refuse to buy anything Trumpeter makes until they get it right. Would that relationship become untenable for them? For us? Who knows. I have the Wildcat, Bf109G, Corsair all in my closet, and the MiG in the mail. I can't help but smile knowing the joy I'll get building these, and I also dred the mistakes I'll come across (like the horrible engine/fuselage error in the 1/24 'oh nine), but until those errors outweigh the joy, I'll keep buying what Trumpeter is selling.

[Wildcat]

Thanks for the heads up Jeff, I am sure I will waist no time reading it.

Mark

[R Hunt]

Too late , I already started and to tell you the truth after endless hours of hacking on My revell P-51B this looks like a walk in the park!

Bob.

p.s. how can you not build that engine, see it or not?

[Jack]

....everybody is entitled to his or her opinion......but didn't someone at LSP lately put it this way:

 

Modeling should be building, adjusting, correcting, fitting, finishing and ....enjoying the effort, whether it being a hasepeter or a revellamiya....

 

Just smacking together a "bake-and-shake" kit wouldn't exactly be the "spirit" of the hobby, right???

It seems that sometimes the positive- as well as the negative criticism/feedback/review gets overkilled rightaway.

To me it would almost kill the urge to start building or even think about modeling.......well almost.....

 

just my two pieces of sprue.......

[maverick728470]

Jack,

I agree with u on building,cutting,bashing,changing and just plain model building.When it comes to that certian kit,that everybody wants and needs for his or her collection,then things get crazy real fast.We seem not to really notice that there are kits that have to be changed and etc.Just to get that kit right.So,why is it we complain all the time.It's that thing between u'er ears,that tell u what to do and if u can't get it the first time,u know the old saying.U fail the first time,u try,try again.Larry

[Coolie]

He's totally right about making noise...you have to bring up inadequacies to initiate change. (I know this because I work for a very large IT Hardware company that you all know)

 

Am I wrong in remembering someone saying that trumpeter had responded to criticism with correction in the past already?

[zerosystem]

it yes...cause there's a million different fixes that don't cost the same as a steel mold. and the only thing trumpeter re-tooled was the wildcat. for all the complaints they've received for the mustang, spitfire, 109, zero, cv8...they haven't touched the molds. and those were all external errors.

the p-40 kit looks extremely nice and its fix looks like it requires little more than sheet plastic and a couple o f strips...

i'm not saying that they should continue to make errors and profit on it, i'm just asking that people be a little more fair. i mean for all thats its worth if you're going to do that much complaining and go out and buy the kit.

where were all the nay-sayers when revell released thier kits back in the day?

[Coolie]

Fairy snuff...probably fixed the first one thinking it was an isolated issue...anyway keep complaining, if only cos otherwise your letting them get away with it

[Vernon]

I do not know Mr. Cleaver in person and I'm sure that he is an excellent fellow in real life.

 

However, from his writing, both in reviews and board postings I have drawn the following personal opinions and I happily state that I could be wrong in these views.

 

Mr. Cleaver is a prolific modeller of no small talent with a catholic taste in subjects which is to be lauded.

 

He denigrates all "experts" and then promptly sets himself up as one displaying either a lack of real personal insight or an amazing talent for hypocrisy.

 

He also seems to thrill at using the most inflammatory language to both denigrate companies and people who have crossed or disagreed with him. The memory that sticks most in mind is the total rubbishing of another modellers temerity to suggest that some Battle of Britain Hurricanes could have been painted Light Blue on the undersides as opposed to Sky. The fact that he was wrong based both on archeological and British Air Ministry Documentary evidence was simply ignored. He'd seen a restored Hurricane and again came back with the "when was the last time you did?" approach.

 

Mr. Cleaver is as I have said before an aircraft modeller of wonderfully diverse tastes and produces models of a high standard. However, he also seems to produce enemies in droves and alienate more.

 

I would refer you to the in the box review by Brad Hagen and the in the box review on Internet Modeler, both of which criticise where necessary, but in equal measure praise what is due.

[Tony O]

well said Vernon, balanced views.

 

Remember Mr.Cleaver is no more or less worthy in his opinion as the rest of us. (age, modelling pedigree or competitions won don't lend weight to personal opinion)

I'm not a P-40B/C officionado, but i do like the aircraft for its aesthetic appeal. The kit looks ok to me, seems to be very close to the drawings I have and although the cockpit is already known to be suspect, shouldn't be difficult to fix/alter.

Accuracy is subjective.

There is no such thing as 100% accuracy and until the rivet counters wake up and accept this as fact, we'll be subjected to scathing monologues from a myriad of 'experts' who might or might not have some agenda of their own, but who certainly believe that theirs is the right to sow the seeds of doubt in peoples minds about a product, based on a rather shaky belief that because the product originates in China, it is somehow expected to be of dubious quality.

In itself this is a racist remark and denigrates Chinese people for their skills and work ethic. This blatant remark casts my doubts on Mr Cleavers real agenda here and makes me doubt his comments as being of any real worth. It would also be worth remembering that many of the high tech components of our computer/medical equipment/engineering components are sourced by some of the Western world's most prestige commercial manufacturers from Chinese producers (the exotic metal cooled drivers of my new HiFi speakers)

Remember again, its just one persons opinion, if it happens to coincide with your own then fine, if not file it away for future reference.

 

don't believe anything you read and only half of what you see.

 

But reading the article, it did seem that Mr Cleaver was more interested in telling us that he'd had the good fortune to be associated with Eric Schilling (does this in someway qualify his views on the model?)and his escapades and on balance the article was light on modelling content and heavy on historical 'colour'.

Whilst this isn't a bad thing in itself and is interesting to those of us who build from a Historical viewpoint (rather than because its a 109) it is worth asking mr Cleaver, just what the article is trying to be. A purple prose dramatisation of the events involving Schilling, or a involved and open review of a commercial product?

I wonder if he'd be averse to someone reviewing his article on its publication merits?

I was left feeling that MrCleaver was trying to impress us here, with his aviation knowledge and personal contacts (its quite possible to pay a few quid and go and rub shoulders with BoB aces at most Duxford weekends, most will happily chat to you.)

I'm more than happy to to do a subjective review. I've no axe to grind with him or his views.

 

AND by all means complain if you don't like something, but do it positively!

 

Remenber its JUST a hobby....

 

PS Vernon, the museum is the Solway Aviation Society, sorry I didn't reply to your last post, I've been a bit under the weather.

Tony

[Menelaos]

do you remember?..there were times that Revell came out with their simple 1:32 kits and a big hurra came in the air.

 

I'm very glad that we have trumpeter even with their mistakes.

 

I'm very glad to try to fix those mistakes (look at Revells F-4E/F)

 

I'm very glad to have the oportunity to build those kits that nobody in the glamorous western world even had the courage to produce (eg A-10, Thud, and hopefully A-7, F-100 etc)...

 

It's nice to have a kit that comes ready OOB without extra kits but look at the past and look the quality of today...

 

Ok no more comments

 

M.

[Bails]

Although I am not an apologist for Tom Cleaver, I do have a few thoughts about him and his work. First, I'm not an expert modeler with great skills, however I do care deeply about this crazy hobby of gluing up little airplanes, which I've been doing on-and-off for 32 years. Tom's build-reviews really do serve me quite well because they provide "watch-out-fors" and building tips......for example, he showed photos of his work on how to finish the wings of the Trumpeter Wildcat in the "down" position so they don't droop. I tested it and it worked quite well for me. I have many examples of his help over the past 5 years or so since I again got serious about our hobby. Furthermore, when I had a specific issue I needed help on, Tom was eager to be supportive.......that says a lot about where his heart is, IMHO. I also look forward to Tom's historical commentaries which he includes in his build articles; they give me a snapshot of the past related to the specific subject at hand which I appreciate. I also find his writing quite engaging. Bottom line for me........I'm glad TC is eager to share his work with us; for me, the good stuff he provides far outweighs any biting comments he might have.....in fact, I rather admire his willingness to put into words what many of us think, but are unwilling to lay out for the world to see. Food for thougt.

Bails-In-Minnesota

[Juggernut]

The only thing that Tom Cleaver's article did was piss me off; not because the kit has faults, but because of his attitude. From reading it, all I got was that this person, who I'm never met, has an axe to grind, and/or a superiority complex. Especially the first paragraph. Who cares if this jaboney sat in a P-40 last week and can now barrel roll his doctor killer (another name for the Beech Bonanza) at 1000 ft. Last time I checked, this was a hobby, not a race, nor a matter of National security. I for one wouldn't trash a kit then rate it at 7.5 out of 10....It begs the question....why did he even bother?

 

I've been a large scale builder for many, many years (35 of em) and I can never remember ever kow-towing to the manufacturer just for the release. IMHO, you take what you're given, and do it up (so to speak) with your knowledge, skills and abilities. That's what makes it "your" model. If it has errors, so be it...do with it what you will. This isn't saying that we shouldn't recommend changes to the manufacturer for modifications and future releases, we should or, like someone said, nothing will change. One person with an obvious negative attitude won't be taken for anything except that.

 

I've seen 1/48 scale kits that were so damn bad that you just look at the plastic, shake your head and wonder why they bothered and why am I wasting good paint and glue on this. Gaze over at circular file #13 and promptly heave the whole kit into it and move on to something else.

 

FWIW

 

TimC.

[Juggernut]

Too late , I already started and to tell you the truth after endless hours of hacking on My revell P-51B

I know the kit is not good but are using another Hasegawa P51D to augment those areas on the B which fall short? What did you do regarding the cockpit?

 

TimC.