Welsh Models 757 Iron Maiden

[Derek B]

It is encouraging to see that you are still sticking with this Kev - ultimately, all good skills learning stuff! This is one of the issues with very old vacform kits that have been turned into multi-media kits without major rework of the original parts to account for such issues (something which I always accounted for with my master patterns - particularly wing incidence and scale finesse (wing thickness) and engine alignment!).

 

You are doing a great job Kev - keep going!

 

Derek

[LSP_Kevin]

Thanks, Derek. I'm not overly concerned with the result on this one, and just doing what I can, where I can. Already the dihedral is too flat, the wing incidence too high, and the engine pylons will most likely be too long. And in the end, it will probably look more like a caricature of the 757. But it's a great learning experience, and I'm sure I'll be able to take that to my next vac airliner builds.

 

That said, if I could find a Zvezda 757-200 kit, I'd definitely hold the Ed Force One decals over for that! Then I wouldn't feel I was forced to "waste" them on a sub-standard model. I'd still finish this one, but using any old airliner livery I had to hand.

 

Kev

[Derek B]

7 hours ago, LSP_Kevin said:

Thanks, Derek. I'm not overly concerned with the result on this one, and just doing what I can, where I can. Already the dihedral is too flat, the wing incidence too high, and the engine pylons will most likely be too long. And in the end, it will probably look more like a caricature of the 757. But it's a great learning experience, and I'm sure I'll be able to take that to my next vac airliner builds.

 

That said, if I could find a Zvezda 757-200 kit, I'd definitely hold the Ed Force One decals over for that! Then I wouldn't feel I was forced to "waste" them on a sub-standard model. I'd still finish this one, but using any old airliner livery I had to hand.

 

Kev

 

Sounds like a good plan Kev (I have noticed that Amazon.co.au have one Zvezda B757-200 kit left for £69.59 if anyone is throwing any Amazon vouchers your way!).

 

Derek

[LSP_Kevin]

1 hour ago, Derek B said:

 

Sounds like a good plan Kev (I have noticed that Amazon.co.au have one Zvezda B757-200 kit left for £69.59 if anyone is throwing any Amazon vouchers your way!).

 

Derek

 

I've got that one on my wish list, but having just ordered a B787-900 to go with my newly-discovered ANA Star Wars decals, I thought I'd better pace myself a little!

 

Kev

[Alex]

On 3/29/2024 at 12:24 AM, LSP_Kevin said:

I think it might be better to build those sections out with styrene or lumps of resin (from old casting blocks).

 

 

100% agree with this.  Trying to form those sections out of putty sounds like a recipe for frustration.

[LSP_Kevin]

I've been tinkering with this one in the background, and have made some progress. Firstly, I measured out and then filled in the gaps in the pylons with styrene strip:

 

 

I then added some Bare Metal Foil to the pylon locating area, and built out the styrene strips with some Milliput:

 

 

 

The foil acts as a barrier to stop the Milliput sticking where I don't want it.

 

The next step was to add a copious amount of Milliput to the wing pylon mating surfaces, and smoosh them into place. After a bit of clean up and shaping, I left them to cure:

 

 

Again, the foil acts as a barrier to the Milliput, allowing me to remove the pylons so I can shape the mating surfaces appropriate, which I've now started doing. I'll need to repat this process with some CA, as the Milliput didn't do a perfect job. The aim here is to get the fit to be good enough so that I can paint the engines off the model, and them after also painting the wings. I'm sure I'll have to do a bit of tidying up afterwards, but it sure beats trying to paint the engines in situ!

 

The last thing I did was add some more Milliput to the port side of the wing box, as I wasn't happy with the shape there:

 

 

Still has to be sanded to shape. By the time I'm done, this model will be more Milliput than plastic!

 

I do have one last area of challenge with this model, which is the vertical tail. It's too skinny, and with a full-tail decal being a prominent element of the intended livery (Ed Force One), this is a problem. I have two basic solutions to the problem. The first is the modify the tail so that it fits the decal, and the second is to modify the decals to fit the tail. I'd already decided previously that I was going to do the latter, scanning the decals, and then altering them before reprinting them at the "correct" size. However, the more I played with the scans in Photoshop, the more distorted the tail design started to become, and my test prints on plain paper still showed them not fitting well.

 

So now I'm toying with the idea of reverting to the first option, which is obviously a lot more work, and opens the potential for me ruining the tail completely. It also may end up with the tail looking too large, or at least a bit strange.

 

Decisions, decisions!

 

Kev

[Derek B]

2 hours ago, LSP_Kevin said:

Still has to be sanded to shape. By the time I'm done, this model will be more Milliput than plastic!

 

Sounds very much like one of my old Welsh Models master patterns Kev! 

 

The way you have tackled the individual engine fits is exactly the approach I took when I made master patterns which required identical handed engine fits (for four engined aircraft, I went for the modular approach).

 

As for the fin, using a razor saw or careful multiple scalpel cuts to remove it from the fuselage should not be too stressful. The height and width of the fin can then be adjusted with plastic card inserts (stepped for strength) and Milliput as required. Once sanded and re-scribed, it can be re-installed back onto the fuselage by whatever method you see as appropriate. Good luck.

 

Derek 

[LSP_Kevin]

15 hours ago, Derek B said:

As for the fin, using a razor saw or careful multiple scalpel cuts to remove it from the fuselage should not be too stressful. The height and width of the fin can then be adjusted with plastic card inserts (stepped for strength) and Milliput as required. Once sanded and re-scribed, it can be re-installed back onto the fuselage by whatever method you see as appropriate. Good luck.

 

Thanks, Derek. Still haven't decided which way I'll go yet, but if I decide to modify the fin, I'll simply remove the leading edge, widen the rest of the fin by the required amount with plastic strip, and then re-attach the leading edge. This way, I don't have to shape a new one!

 

Kev

[LSP_Kevin]

I'm please to report that I think I'm finally done with mating the Bra.Z engine pylons to the wings. I know it's a bit hard to see in the photos, but I've built out the interface between the pylons and the wings with a combination of Milliput, and a CA/Talc mix.

 

 

 

The result isn't perfect, and I'll still have nasty joins to deal with between the main pylons and the rear sections, but at least I can now paint the engines off the model, which will be much easier! I'll then mask them up, attach them to the model, and then blend them in and fix up the paint as necessary.

 

 

I still have to decide which way I'm going with the tail, as neither of the options I outlined previously seem ideal to me. Enlarging the tail to fit the original decal would, to my mind, make it as much too wide as it currently is now too narrow - so just flipping the problem, essentially. But at least the decals would fit. Modifying the decals to suit the existing tail would distort the iconic design noticeably I think. Either approach would result in something that looks odd. I guess the obvious answer is to meet in the middle - beef out the tail so that it looks accurate, and modify the tail decal to suit the accurate size and shape. But that's twice as much work!

 

 

Kev

[LSP_Kevin]

Just expanding on my comments about the tail, here are some photos that hopefully illustrate the point I'm trying to make - and the conundrum I'm currently facing!

 

First, here is a plain-paper copy of the unaltered tail decal from the Babibi Model sheet, taped to kit's vertical fin:

 

 

The first thing you might notice is that it sits at the wrong angle, with the base of the decal not matching the kit profile. This makes it "lean back", or, if I make the front sit correctly, it rises too high at the bottom rear.

 

The full extent of the issue reveals itself from the other side, however:

 

 

The size difference - particularly in width - is massive, and I think modifying the fin to match this would make it look overscale I think. Here's what it would look like in context:

 

 

Even if it didn't look off proportionally, just resizing the tail wouldn't be enough, as the shapes are different, so the decal would probably still need to be modified anyway. These were allegedly designed for the Minicraft kit, but are too large for it as well (though closer than here).

 

For comparison, here's what an adjusted version of the decal looks like in situ:

 

 

This has been sized to fit the fin almost exactly, but also had its shape manipulated to more closely match the weird geometry of the fin. It's still a little too wide, however, as there's no allowance for the silver leading edge:

 

 

I could further reduce the width of the decal to properly allow for this, but my concern in doing so is that I'd be introducing too much distortion into the design, and it would still end up looking oddly squished.

 

In my previous post I mentioned a solution that took a little from Column A, and a little from Column B, and I think that's the way I'm leaning now - especially since the decal has already been resized to my satisfaction, so I'd just need to modify the tail to suit. This would mean widening it by the width of the silver leading edge. I figure I'd then have a tail decoration that didn't look overly distorted, and a vertical fin that looked closer to accurate.

 

Thoughts?

 

Kev

[Derek B]

I am not quite understanding exactly what Columns A and B are Kev? Obviously, if the decal print can be further adjusted/manipulated/skewed to fit the kit tail correctly, it would still be the easier option than modifying the kit fin to match the decal. You may already have done this, but using tracing paper or clear film to accurately map out the true shape and size of the kit fin and rudder assembly and transferring that on to your desktop drawing package/tool may help you to decide exactly how much further you can modify the decal design and still have it looking satisfactory? (As it already looks reasonably close, I think that I would personally go for compromise here rather than 100% accuracy?).

 

Derek 

[Derek B]

On a side note, I have just ordered these last evening (the Devil made me do it...Tasmanian or otherwise remains to be seen! ).

 

 

 

Derek

Edited April 9 by Derek B

[LSP_Kevin]

8 minutes ago, Derek B said:

I am not quite understanding exactly what Columns A and B are Kev? Obviously, if the decal print can be further adjusted/manipulated/skewed to fit the kit tail correctly, it would still be the easier option than modifying the kit fin to match the decal. You may already have done this, but using tracing paper or clear film to accurately map out the true shape and size of the kit fin and rudder assembly and transferring that on to your desktop drawing package/tool may help you to decide exactly how much further you can modify the decal design and still have it looking satisfactory? (As it already looks reasonably close, I think that I would personally go for compromise here rather than 100% accuracy?).

 

Derek 

 

Column A is "modify the tail" and Column B is "modify the decal". I've already done the latter so that it fits the tail exactly, but to manipulate it any further would introduce noticeable distortions to the image, since the original decal is not only larger than the tail, but a different shape. Instead, I'm in the process of adding some 60 thou half-round stryrene stock to the leading edge of the fin as a compromise. Once it's shaped and faired in, it should do the job nicely, with a lot less work that anything I was planning previously! The bare metal leading edge on the fin is very narrow, so the fin only needed the smallest of extensions to accommodate it, whereas, I think I've taken the decal manipulations as far as they can reasonably go.

 

Kev

[Derek B]

5 minutes ago, LSP_Kevin said:

 

Column A is "modify the tail" and Column B is "modify the decal". I've already done the latter so that it fits the tail exactly, but to manipulate it any further would introduce noticeable distortions to the image, since the original decal is not only larger than the tail, but a different shape. Instead, I'm in the process of adding some 60 thou half-round stryrene stock to the leading edge of the fin as a compromise. Once it's shaped and faired in, it should do the job nicely, with a lot less work that anything I was planning previously! The bare metal leading edge on the fin is very narrow, so the fin only needed the smallest of extensions to accommodate it, whereas, I think I've taken the decal manipulations as far as they can reasonably go.

 

Kev

 

 

Derek

[LSP_Kevin]

So, here's a quick summary of the work I've just completed on the tail. Firstly, gluing some 60 thou half-round styrene strip to the leading edge of the fin:

 

 

The curve into the fuselage needed a little extra help, so I glued an extra section on top there. I started with liquid cement, and then flooded the join with thin CA.

 

After curing and a quick tidy up with some sanding sticks, I concocted a thick mix of CA and talc, backfilled the join with it, and then squirted it with accelerator. A few minutes later I took to it with some sanding implements, and arrived at this:

 

 

You can see that I also filled the kit door recesses while I was at it.

 

A quick test fit shows that the result is much better, and much closer to what I was after:

 

 

Not perfect, but close enough for rock'n'roll, appropriately enough.

 

At this point, I think some final priming and a bit of wet sanding is all that stands between me and the painting stage!

 

Oh, except that I told myself I would be rescribing some panel lines in this one...

 

Damn it!

 

Kev