F-16C Aggressor 86-273 - What Block?

[VintageEagle]

Hi,

 

I recently saw the photo of F-16 86-273 of the 64th Aggressor Squadron. It used to have a P&W engine and the early landing gear, but it seems it was upgraded in the past 2 years with a GE engine and the late landing gear? What would be the Block designation and what exactly was upgraded? Could the Tamiya Block 50 kit be used to build a model of this aircraft? 

 

Thanks, Roger

[Juggernut]

Pertinent Details:

 

 

Here she is in 2019 painted in the "Have Glass" scheme.

 

 

As far as being retrofitted with a GE engine and heavyweight landing gear; there's nothing in the database to confirm that.  Do you have a more recent photo than the one from 2019?

[Dave Williams]

Are you sure about this?  I haven’t heard that P&W powered F-16s are being re-engined to GE engines.  Are they getting the MCID too?  Also, it doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense to change the gear of an Aggressor F-16 to heavyweight gear.  Why would they need it?

 

 Still listed as a Block 32D here.

 

https://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/airframe-profile/2056/

 

 

[Juggernut]

This is a photo of 86-0273 taken (according to the photo metadata) March 13, 2023 and she clearly has a P&W engine and most probably, an NSI intake.

 

 

Photo retrieved from: Jet Photos.com

Edited February 6 by Juggernut

[Dave Williams]

I believe that, except for a few test aircraft, P&W engined F-16s all use the NSI, so that’s almost certainly not MCID.  Also, that looks like lightweight MLG.

 

Interesting it’s carrying an Israeli EL-8222 pod.

[VintageEagle]

Thank you all. Here is a recent photo. It seems the upgrade was done around 2022. 

 

Another one here: https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/10588645

[Pete Fleischmann]

That is still an NSI intake-

[VintageEagle]

5 minutes ago, Pete Fleischmann said:

That is still an NSI intake-

Yes, but do GE engines work with the NSI and is that (GE engine, later landing gear and NSI) a new Block designation?

[Juggernut]

1 minute ago, VintageEagle said:

Yes, but do GE engines work with the NSI and is that (GE engine, later landing gear and NSI) a new Block designation?

 

There are a few of the very early block 30 F-16C's that were built with the GE engine and an NSI intake (my mind is telling me around 75 airframes but I drink so don't rely on that).  Most of those went to the U.S. Navy but not all (again, see my disclaimer above).  I think the whole GE/P&W thing came about when the USAF wanted an alternate engine for the F-16 and GE was selected.  Early on, it was discovered that the GE needed more air so the MCID (big mouth) intake was developed.  Although it is "technically possible", I don't believe they purposely re-engine P&W aircraft with GE engines but again, I'm no authority so it indeed may be done.  IF that were to be done, they would not change the block number of the aircraft, that stays as it was when it was built.  So, 86-0273 would always be a block 32D airframe. I don't have a clue as to what the "D" in 32D means but I'm sure Pete probably does.

 

I am not familiar with what the visual differences are between the heavyweight and lightweight landing gear.  I do not think that movement/installation of the landing/taxi lights to the nose wheel door is indicative of an airframe being equipped with heavyweight landing gear.

[Dave Williams]

3 hours ago, VintageEagle said:

Thank you all. Here is a recent photo. It seems the upgrade was done around 2022. 

 

Another one here: https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/10588645

Can’t see the exhaust in the first photo, so can’t say that it’s not the P&W engine.

 

The second photo you linked is a different aircraft, 86-0306, in the same scheme.  That aircraft is a Block 30D, so it does come with the GE engine.

 

There is, and has been, more than one aircraft painted in that arctic scheme.  You may be getting confused by looking at pictures of two different aircraft at different times.  I’m guessing that 86-0306 adopted the arctic scheme after 86-0273 was repainted in the Have Glass scheme.

 

 

Edited February 7 by Dave Williams

[VintageEagle]

27 minutes ago, Juggernut said:

 

There are a few of the very early block 30 F-16C's that were built with the GE engine and an NSI intake (my mind is telling me around 75 airframes but I drink so don't rely on that).  Most of those went to the U.S. Navy but not all (again, see my disclaimer above).  I think the whole GE/P&W thing came about when the USAF wanted an alternate engine for the F-16 and GE was selected.  Early on, it was discovered that the GE needed more air so the MCID (big mouth) intake was developed.  Although it is "technically possible", I don't believe they purposely re-engine P&W aircraft with GE engines but again, I'm no authority so it indeed may be done.  IF that were to be done, they would not change the block number of the aircraft, that stays as it was when it was built.  So, 86-0273 would always be a block 32D airframe. I don't have a clue as to what the "D" in 32D means but I'm sure Pete probably does.

 

I am not familiar with what the visual differences are between the heavyweight and lightweight landing gear.  I do not think that movement/installation of the landing/taxi lights to the nose wheel door is indicative of an airframe being equipped with heavyweight landing gear.

Thank you for your explanation. 86-273 was built with a P&W engine see photo below), but apparently received the GE engine around 2022.

 

That’s a good point about the nose gear landing lights. I’m not sure if also received the heavyweight landing gear.

 

It would be interesting to know all changes and whether the Tamiya F-16C Thunderbirds or the Block 50 kit were the better one with the least number of required modifications. A GE engine aggressor is definitely a very attractive bird. 

 

 

 

Later:

 

[Zola25]

Both pictures of 86-273 above show an F-16 with NSI intake and a PW engine

 

The only F-16´s with an NSI intake and GE engines were the F-16N. If I am not mistaken, it was this very combo that led to the design of the MCID intake.

The relocation of the landing gear lights from the main struts to the nose gear door, was a result of aircraft being able to carry targeting pods on the intake. These pods obstructs the landing lights mounted on the main gear.

 

Edited February 7 by Zola25

[Juggernut]

Where do you see 86-0273 with a GE engine?  Every photo you've posted, including the last two show the P&W engine.

[VintageEagle]

52 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:

Can’t see the exhaust in the first photo, so can’t say that it’s not the P&W engine.

 

The second photo you linked is a different aircraft, 86-0306, in the same scheme.  That aircraft is a Block 30D, so it does come with the GE engine.

 

There is, and has been, more than one aircraft painted in that arctic scheme.  You may be getting confused by looking at pictures of two different aircraft at different times.  I’m guessing that 86-0306 adopted the arctic scheme after 86-0273 was repainted in the Have Glass scheme.

 

 

 

Yes, you are right, I confused the photos in my earlier post, but in my most recent one I show photos of the same airframe, but once with P&W and once with GE.

[Dave Williams]

 

14 minutes ago, Zola25 said:

Both pictures of 86-273 above show an F-16 with NSI intake and a PW engine

 

The only F-16´s with an NSI intake and GE engines were the F-16N. If I am not mistaken, it was this very combo that led to the design of the MCID intake.

The relocation of the landing gear lights from the main struts to the nose gear door, was a result of aircraft being able to carry targeting pods on the intake. These pods obstructs the landing lights mounted on the main gear.

 

Actually, Israel also got a number of early Block 30s with NSIs and GE engines.

Edited February 7 by Dave Williams