blackbetty Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 x2 get them while you can. the phantom is the bird i have the most reference on by far, but jakes book too reference to a new level (like all of his books) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P Stoner Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I've got some drawing for the camera bays/ camera set up/ hatches if there's any areas you want to detail out. Flash pouch too! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony T Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) Wow- Thanks for the information so far fellas. ... I would like to participate in the Groupbuild....... Tony, could you possibly take a picture of the part and the Tamiya Instructions in regards to the shape and placement of the Loran antenna? ....Now off to locate some markings. THOR.......bewildered at the jet stuff...... Scanned from the Tamiya F-4 kit (RF-4 towel rail in same location) Note that the Tamiya part has a base resembling a plank of 1x4 which should be removed. The three sloping blades had a small individual elliptical flattish base just like a UHF/TACAN antenna mount. And reproduced for reference purposes only... It looks like there's four sloping antennae holding up the towel rail - there isn't. The third one back is an offset UHF antenna mounted on the right hand side of the spine. Note also the dinky antenna on the nose glare shield area. I'm planning on doing one of these 14th TRS jets on a very limited run on solid clear decal later this year, unless somebody like Eli at Zotz tackles them. Just need more references, like crew names. Keflavik, Tyndall and Eglin F-4 decals are on standby due to planned relocation etc - once the dust has settled I'll get my a** in gear and start having some printed by Draw Decal, who do a fantastic job. Will probably include one of the above Photo-Phantoms, F-4C WW-IVC Rub a dub dub.., and a Ubon F-4D PAVE Knife all on one A5-sized sheet. HTH Tony Edited May 8, 2014 by Tony T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Hi folks, I too have a question about the RF-4C. Does anyone have photos, drawing of pictorials of the cockpits specifically the aft of an aircraft in the 1960s to very early 70s. Most reference data I can find and have shows cockpit in the late 70s to 90s. Though both cockpits when through changes like most other version of the Phanton the aft cockpit is where most changes were reflected. My personal experience with the RF-4C is limited to installing and testing the ARN-101 mod. Even then the aircraft under going mod wher late production, low airframe time RFs which had already undergone numerious changes. I want to do a Vietnam era RF and just can not find references for that time period. TIA, Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_K2 Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Get one, you won't be sorry guys. It is the "go too' book on the F-4.... If it's anything like the Super Hornet book, I'd venture to say it's the best single source out there, period. (I've heard that my buddy's West German F-4F forward fuselage was included in the book as well.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony T Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) Posted earlier Barry, but the "top half" of the LORAN version was this... http://www.usafa68.org/history/Aircraft/RF4C_DanJE.jpg The "vanilla" version was illustrated in the old Bert Kinzey D&S book. That, AFAIK, pretty much sums up the whole fleet ca.1965-1972. Most of the other Vietnam era iterations related to very select aircraft, such as tiny numbers featuring LOROPS sill sights for the KS-172 camera or HIAC pod, Compass Count laser mapping mods etc which probably didn't amount to more than a dozen and which are covered in the Jay Miller Aerofax book. The laser device (which worked like IRLS but used a laser to illuminate the ground and synchronised light-sensitive diode to record it all) also usually involved "obvious" airframe mods in the form of an extended oriel under the flat-nose or, in the case of the HIAC 66 ins LOROPS, a huge "box bird" recce pod called the G139 (or summint like that), if you ever got the chance to see them. Basic rule: if it didn't feature a large self-destruct red warning placard on the inlet side it was a vanilla Photo-Phantom, if it had the towel rail it was a LORAN jet. The great divergence from vanilla and LORAN C/D came in the period 1973-1982 with real-time Goodyear SAR, Litton-Amecom TEREC, Ford Aeronutronic PAVE Tack and the Lear-Siegler "Arnie" mod with which you are already familiar, creating a host of sub-types. I'm really hoping the USAF will see fit to releasing pictures of some of this stuff before long, assuming it hasn't already been lost in the shredder, Tony Edited May 12, 2014 by Tony T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Thanks Tony, The Detail & Scale photo description states that the photos are post Desert Storm RF. The Aerofax RF title has photos that appear to be of a "fundamentally" unchanged cockpit but the ejection seat leg restraints and looped over the antenna hand controller and obscure the equipment from that point aft. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmel Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 If it's anything like the Super Hornet book, I'd venture to say it's the best single source out there, period. (I've heard that my buddy's West German F-4F forward fuselage was included in the book as well.) I appreciate the kind words. No, the German cockpit pics came from a living and breathing F-4F ICE during a Maple Flag deployment and from the 20FS at Holloman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_K2 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Thanks, Jake. Is it possible that the German example was later trashed, and that's the one my friend got his parts from? His was partially destroyed in a fire before he bought it. I don't know the serial number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony T Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Thanks Tony, The Detail & Scale photo description states that the photos are post Desert Storm RF. The Aerofax RF title has photos that appear to be of a "fundamentally" unchanged cockpit but the ejection seat leg restraints and looped over the antenna hand controller and obscure the equipment from that point aft. Barry The diagrams in the D & S book I have (which was published in 1981 or 1982) have the original USAF RF-4C cockpit figs IIRC, or I have them somewhere from McDonnell Douglas as they then were. Will have a rummage today. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony T Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) This is the vanilla version, before additional stuff was added under the cockpit arch (ILS). It does include the RHAWS video display and warning panel, which probably featured small anti-glare hoods. HTH Tony Edited May 12, 2014 by Tony T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Awesome Tony; exactly what I was hoping to find. All the photos I have found has a "side stick" which I did not remember and thought was an addition for the Pave Tack Pod. However that memory is some 30+ years old and as I said my time with the RF was limited. Would you happen to have the accompanying Front Cockpit layout? Thanks a million, Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony T Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Awesome Tony; exactly what I was hoping to find. All the photos I have found has a "side stick" which I did not remember and thought was an addition for the Pave Tack Pod. However that memory is some 30+ years old and as I said my time with the RF was limited. Would you happen to have the accompanying Front Cockpit layout? Thanks a million, Barry Will do tomorrow. I'm at Z+1 in the land-of-UK and PC access. Ipad'ing right now. The side stick and keyboard was all circa 1978+ and mostly "Arnie" and PAVE Tack related, as you recall. The old pre-Arnie INS, before the digital IMU, was so crude that pilots and recce officers used stopwatch timing and pegged airspeeds (increments of 60, e.g. 360, 420 etc) on pre-planned headings, using visible or radar significant waypoints. As Lt.Col Terry. Simpson told me, out of Bergstrom the INS was good for finding bigger places, like Waco. He flew "Box Birds" with the HIAC out of Osan in South Korea, and "Arnie" jets out of RAF Alconbury which he described as "insane, the jet could fly all on its own" in complex SAR-mapping racetrack patterns. He also described the AN/AVQ-26 pod as "Pave Drag", because it slowed the RF-4C down so much. The original RF-4C was heavily dependant on crew skill, even terrain-following being purely manual just based on an E-scope, radar altimeter, and what the back seater saw by way of terrain on the 'scope and calling out obstacles, all the while manually navigating by timer, waypoints and pegged speeds, watching fuel, and going like hell (up to 600 in high threat areas) dodging SAMs and jinking between the IP and "target" to avoid AAA - and then remembering to switch on the cameras! Great guys with nerves of steel. Tony Barry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Shultz II Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 http://www.egelnickandwebb.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/rf-4b_front.jpg This should do you. Found it with Google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Shultzy, That does appear to be the original layout unfortunately it is a "small" size. I have been unable to scale it up large enough to be usable. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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