XS-Models Hughes H-1

[Guest Peterpools]

Kev

The Alclad looks really good, has the right metallic shine to it and I really can't see the small scratches at all.

When I was doing the finish on BBD, I kept on experimenting and learning as I went. I finally got the system down pat when I did the drop tanks, as they have a much deeper metallic shine to them then the fuselage. Once I buffed and polished the tanks, that was it for any buffing or polishing. l finally was able to lay down a nice, glossy, smooth gloss black surface and just let it dry. I misted on a number of coats of Alclad @ 10 psi, let it dry for about 1-0-15 minutes and then just polished it out with a soft, cotton cloth. Not sure if I was lucky but it worked perfectly.

[LSP_Kevin]

Kev

The Alclad looks really good, has the right metallic shine to it and I really can't see the small scratches at all.

When I was doing the finish on BBD, I kept on experimenting and learning as I went. I finally got the system down pat when I did the drop tanks, as they have a much deeper metallic shine to them then the fuselage. Once I buffed and polished the tanks, that was it for any buffing or polishing. l finally was able to lay down a nice, glossy, smooth gloss black surface and just let it dry. I misted on a number of coats of Alclad @ 10 psi, let it dry for about 1-0-15 minutes and then just polished it out with a soft, cotton cloth. Not sure if I was lucky but it worked perfectly.

 

Thanks for you input Peter. Do you think 3 misted coats was enough in my case, or should have I applied more? In reality it was probably more than 3 coats, as I just put a bit of Alclad in the airbrush cup and misted it back and forth until it was gone. I did that 3 times.

 

Also, I was under the impression that you weren't supposed to buff or polish Alclad (or at least, didn't need to). Am I wrong about that? Does polishing/buffing improve its appearance or effect? Also, for BBD, which shade(s) did you use?

 

I'd like to experiment with Eric's buffing approach, but I don't have any polishing compound, or one of the slower cordless Dremels. On my test model here, I used a combination of polishing sticks from Flory Models, and some wet-sanding with 12000 grit Micromesh pads. I still managed to sand through the black enamel in spots, so perhaps I applied that too thinly?

 

Again, sorry for the noob questions guys, but I want to have the process more-or-less under control before I need to use it on the model for real. I guess I'll be doing a few more practise runs yet!

 

Kev

[ericg]

Hi Kev,

 

I did't use polishing compound on the alclad, just on the gloss black primer. I would dare say you would want to seek out one of the cordless dremels that spin at 5000 rpm minimum.

 

eric.

[Supermario]

Nice tests Kev !!

Now to avoid the sanding scratches you see through the Alclad, polishing will not help !!

In the worst case it will increase the effect ! (and also - with my humble experience - don't expect that more Alclad layers will cover them !).

I don't know how your sanding process was but one thing to reduce scratches is to have first a "rock hard" (so complete cured) primer.

Then wet sanding is imperative!

For sanding the final coat of primer, start with #600 or even better #800 grit f your surface is not 90% OK (a used one is always the rule as the paper is much softer and grit lost a bit of it's "sharpness").
For the final sanding, now use - again a worn out - 1200 grit quality sand paper (of course it has to be perfectly clean as the water you use for sanding has to be) and apply (very) soft pressure !
Sand smoothly, always in circular moves !

Avoid any "sharp" edge when having your paper folded for sanding (this also means a fully water soaked sand paper !).

I don't see any reason to polish the primer if this process is done carfully.

If you have a doubt, you can even use some #4000 or #6000 Micromesh or similar "metal polishing cloth".

You need anyway something with enough grit to remove material to the bottom of the "scratch(es)" (as tiny they might be), not only make the surface shiny !

The Micromesh can as well be used after Alclad was applied (of course fully dryed!) but be aware, if you go through the paint, the "step" created from Alclad to ground primer is almost impossible to hide !

 

I also tried to polish Alclad (I only use the bare aluminium one) but the tendency was only to "break" somehow it's metallic appearance.

 

Don't get discouraged, it sounds worse that it actually is, believe me !!

(just water, fine sand paper, smoothness and a dash of patience)

[csavaglio]

Alclad is all about the prep work (assuming you spray it at very low pressure so it doesn't dry before hitting the surface....I use around 10psi).

Darker base colors tint whatever Alclad shade darker. Colors will tint it colored too. It's very, very thin. As was said, polishing will make the small scratches much more apparent. However, you can get away with polishing the Alclad'ed surface, then reapplying another coat of Alclad. I've had good luck doing this.

I can't remember where airframe aluminum falls as far as shades go. There are a lot of different shades of aluminum in the line. White aluminum is probably the lightest. The idea was that you can paint the overall airframe in one shade, then use the other shades to paint individual panels for effect.

 

I have also found that you can tint Alclad by adding very, very small amounts of lacquer paint. Just be sure it's lacquer and not enamel or acrylic lacquer (what many full scale auto paints are). The Model Master Custom Lacquer line for car models works well. I just add a little in the paint cup with the alclad, not into the alclad bottle.

 

I've never tried to lighten it, but I've used blue/purple for heat effects, greys and black for jet exhausts, black for different panel shades, etc. I would try a tiny bit of white to lighten it. The worst case is that you're out a bottle of lacquer paint and a small amount of Alclad.

 

Good luck! It's looking good.

 

Chris

[Guest Peterpools]

Hi Kev

Three mist coats most likely aren't enough. After the mist coats, I like to apply a few heavier coats, so I can buffed the Alclad out without worrying about going through it. Buffing the Alclad with a clean and soft cotton cloth, brings out the shine. As I've progressed in learning to use Alclad, the lightbulb finally went off as the right way to go for me. I ended up using the technique I posted and it worked fantastically. The key is to polish out the plastic surface and seams, to be absolutely smooth with no scratches. then it's time for the Primer. I found that using Tamiya Fine Gray or Fine White works the best. It works so well, as Eric fposted that the black undercoat isn't needed. The darker the gloss undercoat, the deeper and richer the Alclad will look. I've finally reached the point of being able to flow on the Tamiya Gloss Black Acrylic over the primer and when dry, it's ready for the Alclad.

Of course, the big controversy is whether or not to seal the Alclad after decaling. So far, I haven't, for fear of dulling down the shine. But if the final look is supposed to be a worn and weather combat finish, sealing would be the way to go.

[LSP_Kevin]

Thanks guys, some great advice there! I've got a couple of sets of Micromesh pads (medium and small sizes), but I have to say I've been disappointed with them so far. Even the 12000 'grit' pads don't seem to be particularly effective when it comes to polishing out a surface. I'm prepared to concede that it may be my technique though. Anyway, I'm pretty happy with my test as a first attempt, but will be looking to improve that result before I get to the real thing.

 

Kev

[csavaglio]

A very, very light mist of Future doesn't dull the alclad, unless it's something like Chrome.

 

As far as polishing, you can use a cloth and some compound, like Novak plastic polish (it works well on painted surfaces too) or something harsher, like an automotive paint polish, for heavier scratches. Basically, if I'm polishing, I start with 800 or 1000 grit and work my way down. When I'm through about 1500 grit, I switch to the polishes.

Chris

Edited January 31, 2013 by csavaglio

[Bryan]

Thanks guys, some great advice there! I've got a couple of sets of Micromesh pads (medium and small sizes), but I have to say I've been disappointed with them so far. Even the 12000 'grit' pads don't seem to be particularly effective when it comes to polishing out a surface. I'm prepared to concede that it may be my technique though. Anyway, I'm pretty happy with my test as a first attempt, but will be looking to improve that result before I get to the real thing.

 

Kev

I have found the Micromesh to be effective, but to me the secret has been not "skipping" steps. Start with the relatively coarse grits and work down to the fine ones. My mistake initially was to think that the 6000-8000 grit pads would remove orange peel and similar flaws....and they won't....so I just got frustrated. Obviously you have to be VERY careful using the coarser grits...but I have found them essential to get a smooth surface that was ready for further polishing.

[LSP_Kevin]

I have found the Micromesh to be effective, but to me the secret has been not "skipping" steps. Start with the relatively coarse grits and work down to the fine ones. My mistake initially was to think that the 6000-8000 grit pads would remove orange peel and similar flaws....and they won't....so I just got frustrated. Obviously you have to be VERY careful using the coarser grits...but I have found them essential to get a smooth surface that was ready for further polishing.

 

Thanks Bryan. I suspect that has been my problem so far. I plan to do another test on the other wing of my paint mule, and will take this approach when I do.

 

Kev

[LSP_Kevin]

OK, I've completed some more Alclad tests, and the results are a little inconclusive. I took a whole sequence of shots to show the process I used, so perhaps someone can offer some advice on a particular part of the process where I could be doing things better.

 

Firstly, since the subject model is an old paint mule, with lots of build up, I sanded it back and polished it up:

 

 

I've used my set of Micromesh pads throughout for this round of testing, and took Bryan's advice in not skipping a step, at least for this initial stage. As you can see, it's looking quite smooth, shiny and polished.

 

Next up was a thickish coat of Mr Surfacer 1200 out of the airbush:

 

 

Not sure if I should've gone for the rattle can instead with this step, as the finish has dulled right back and become slightly rough. I repeated the Micromesh sequence and arrived at this:

 

 

That's more like it! But I'm not really convinced I needed this stage at all, and I'm wondering whether I should've skipped the primer altogether and simply went for the black coat. Speaking of which:

 

 

Getting hard to photograph now! But it's at this stage where I think things become sub-optimal. I'm using Humbrol Gloss Black here, laid down in several ultra-thin passes. I'm not convinced it's the right paint for the job. It comes out incredibly shiny, but the camera flash reveals what looks like some orange peel or other imperfections in the surface. Eric has recommended the Alclad Gloss Black Base, so I'll look to get some of that when I can.

 

In any case, I decided to polish it out, but that's where things went a bit wrong. I only used the finer half of the Micromesh pads, as it seemed a bit redundant to go all the way back to the coarsest grit. I still managed to sand through the black in several places though, and these showed through the Alclad as blotchy patches.

 

 

 

It's nearly impossible to see the blotchiness in the photos, but you can see the slight 'graining' effect that all the sanding and polishing has produced.

 

At this point I thought I'd give it one last try using my current approach, but this time I skipped the primer and didn't polish the black base coat. Here's how that came out:

 

 

This is definitely the smoothest and most consistent finish so far, but not perfect. Most of the obvious surface flaws are tiny pits in the plastic.

 

Ironically, when I compare this with the top wing, the top wing looks more convincing as metal due to the slight graining, whereas the bottom now looks like chromed plastic!

 

So, for a warbird, the slight graining would be perfect, but for my H-1, I still need to produce a flawless, highly-polished surface. It's getting better, but not quite there. I'll look to replace the Humbrol for the black base coat, and I've ordered some Alclad Polished Aluminum to try out as well. I don't have the gear to try out Eric's polishing method at this stage, but I'll give it a go if I can get the gear sorted in time.

 

So, that's where I'm at with the Alclad. So glad I'm doing all this now on a test model, and not waiting until the real deal! If you can see any flaws in my approach, or can suggest a better way, or better materials, I'm all ears. If you think it actually looks OK, and I'm over-thinking it, tell me that too!

 

Kev

[A.Wolf Grant]

Blimey Kev, talk about all the processes you've gone through. I've learned a huge amount about using this stuff. It's certainly complex and not for the faint of heart.

Looking forward to seeing more progress.

 

Grant

[LSP_Kevin]

Blimey Kev, talk about all the processes you've gone through. I've learned a huge amount about using this stuff. It's certainly complex and not for the faint of heart.

Looking forward to seeing more progress.

 

Grant

 

Thanks Grant. I suspect I'm making it more complex than it needs to be, but I'm really just trying to get all my major 'learning mistakes' out of the way before I need to paint the actual model. As a side test I tried using Mr Surfacer 1200 as a base coat on one of the tail planes, instead of the gloss black, but it looked terrible! The micro-scratches stood out much more, and it completely lacked that deep lustre that obviously comes from the gloss black.

 

I guess I should really get back to the model itself at this point!

 

Kev

[Daywalker]

Impressive work Kev, I admire your desire to get it "right".

 

Do you have any access to Tamiya acrylics? I usually use Tamiya gloss black acrylic as my black base for Alclad finishes.

[LSP_Kevin]

Impressive work Kev, I admire your desire to get it "right".

 

Do you have any access to Tamiya acrylics? I usually use Tamiya gloss black acrylic as my black base for Alclad finishes.

 

Thanks Frank. Yep, can get Tamiya acrylics (my preferred brand actually). I don't usually buy their gloss paints though. Do you polish it out before applying the Alclad?

 

Kev