A question about foiling

[LSP_Kevin]

So I've started this Tamiya 1/48 MiG-15 as an excuse to try foiling a model for the first time. I've a selection of household foils and a bottle of Microscale Foil Adhesive. My first practice run on an old paint mule was a disaster, and I put it down to the model having a horrible surface not suitable for foiling. So, I cut to the chase and tried to foil one of the flaps on the MiG-15, which turned out almost as badly. I then realised that all those lumps, bumps and striations that wouldn't burnish out were from the glue.

 

So, how do I apply the Microscale adhesive to the back side of the foil so that it doesn't bead up in clumps or along brush strokes? Brian? Ken? Bueller?

 

Kev

[PhilB]

Kev,

Im sure Brian will chip in once he's slept off the hangover.

I seem to remember from when he was doing Dixie Boy (if you can find that build) that he gave a bit of a tutorial in there.

I seem to remember him applying the adhesive thinly in two or three coats to the model and letting

each coat dry before the next. I don't think he put the glue on the foil.

 

Phil

[LSP_Kevin]

Thanks Phil. I knew Brian did a detailed tutorial somewhere, but I couldn't find it, and of course I had it in my head that it wasn't part of his Dixie Boy thread. Anyway, I've found it now. Brian does indeed put the glue on the foil, but in a complete different way to how I've been doing it, so my next step is to re-read his tutorial and then give his methods a go. I'm such a newbie!

 

Kev

[ssculptor]

Thanks Phil. I knew Brian did a detailed tutorial somewhere, but I couldn't find it, and of course I had it in my head that it wasn't part of his Dixie Boy thread. Anyway, I've found it now. Brian does indeed put the glue on the foil, but in a complete different way to how I've been doing it, so my next step is to re-read his tutorial and then give his methods a go. I'm such a newbie!

 

Kev

Kev,

Can you show us Brian's tutorial?

Thanks,

Stephen

[Jan-Arie]

If Kevin don't mind.

 

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=28992&st=60

[LSP_Kevin]

Kev,

Can you show us Brian's tutorial?

Thanks,

Stephen

 

 

If Kevin don't mind.

 

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=28992&st=60

 

Yep, Jan-Arie has it. The real foiling starts on page 20 or so. I had forgotten not only all the foiling tips and techniques Brian offers in this thread, but what a great build it is too.

 

Kev

[Out2gtcha]

 

 

So I've started this Tamiya 1/48 MiG-15 as an excuse to try foiling a model for the first time. I've a selection of household foils and a bottle of Microscale Foil Adhesive. My first practice run on an old paint mule was a disaster, and I put it down to the model having a horrible surface not suitable for foiling. So, I cut to the chase and tried to foil one of the flaps on the MiG-15, which turned out almost as badly. I then realised that all those lumps, bumps and striations that wouldn't burnish out were from the glue.

So, how do I apply the Microscale adhesive to the back side of the foil so that it doesn't bead up in clumps or along brush strokes? Brian? Ken? Bueller?

Kev

There are a couple of schools of thought on this.............

I too tried to tried the initial brushing method and had hit or miss with it. The key either way is to lay down a film as thin as you can, let it dry and move on to another layer if needed after the first is dry.
Its also of note to cut out the smallest piece of foil to work with you can initially, as the foil glue is SUPER sticky and attracts mad dust and particulates that contribute to the lumpiness.

Kev, if you can, its really handy to have a large piece of ceramic tile to work on (as in pics). Not sure in AU how it works, but round here they are fairly cheap at any home shop or tile shop.
Get as large a one as you can stand or have room for. (tiz also handy for working on other things that need a SUPER flat surface as well).

Here are a couple of quick and dirty hints to get you started. (BTW Kev if there is anything here you'd like more help with or hints on, or something Im not covering please feel free and PM me )

- Get that tile piece as it makes life foiling MUCHO easier. Reasons for that seen in coming pics -

- First take that tile piece and make sure the tile is 100% clean and bump free, or this too will translate BIG TIME into lumps and bumps in the finished foil. The cool thing about the tile, is its already confirmed true flat and level from the factory. I recommend going over the tile with a flat razor, then hitting it with some fine wet/dry sand paper. This does not degrade the ceramic tile at all really, it just makes sure you have a 100% lump free surface to start with -



- Now you can cut out your foil piece (again making it as small as you can work with) and using just your fingers, dip them in a bit of water and get the tile generally wet...about the sized area of the foil piece your working with -



- You can now place the previously cut section of foil on the wet tile, making sure to lay down the foil section on the BACK side AKA -opposite side you want showing- this is to hold the foil piece down while applying glue. Smooth it out flat on the tile using a filler spreader (more on this in a sec). -



- I found that using a brush......no matter how good quality.....eventually leaves streaks and sometimes bristles behind. I experimented a LOT with this and for me at least, found a better way. Take that same piece of foil now flat and stuck on the tile by the film of water, and use a syringe filled with the Microscale glue and run a bead of it along the edge of the foil -



- I found that the "bondo" or automotive filler spreader like this one work awesome for this -
(image removed)

For me, these spreaders work way better for this process. I would HIGHLY recommend that when cutting your individual foil pieces, that you dont ever cut any sections wider than your spreader. AKA cut the foil section so its about 1/2 inch shy of the length of the spreader on each side; basically so the foil part is overall 1 inch or so in total length less than however wide your spreader is. This will ensure you get even coverage on the WHOLE foil piece.

- Now take that spreader and pull (at approx about a 45 angle) the bead of glue across the foil. Dont worry about over lap or the glue going off the edges of the piece -



- Let that dry till the filmy look goes away -



- After this is dry, you can repeat as needed OVER that first dry layer of foil glue, to acheive the amount of "stick" you need.

This WILL TAKE SOME PRACTICE TO GET RIGHT! Dont be discouraged if you get streaks with the spreader initially. So did I. Just like riding a bike mate.........just takes practice to get down the technique right. Just make sure the spreader is ultra clean as ANY little debris or chink out of the edge of the spreader will translate to a steak or bump in the foil glue.

Get yourself a foil test bed, like my 48th A-7 to experiment with (this foil piece here is WAY too big to work with as one piece, and im just did this for experimentation reasons)




I would HIGHLY recommend for any compound curves or areas that you may paint over foil, using the thickest, strongest foil you can on these areas. Sounds bass-ackwards to what you would think, but the thinker, stronger foil actually will "stretch" around those areas, as well as take to sanding out wrinkles well.
The thinner weaker stuff just tends to rip and look like crap in these areas.


Like I said, this is just the beginning of the foiling stuff. Its definitely not for everyone but I learned from the best; Ken AKA foiler, and picked up and made some of my own techniques along the way, to come up with my own processes that work for me.

I think if you just practice and experiment Kev you can come up with some of your own as well.

By the by, if you plan on graining the foil at all with say, steel wool, sand paper, toothpaste, ect, ect, it is recommended to do this step prior to laying the foil on the tile for glueing. Much harder to accomplish after being glued to the airframe.

Again Kev, anything more you want tips on that I didnt cover, or anything you want me to detail further, I can go over here or you can send me a PM.

HTH, and cheers,
Brian Edited December 16, 2017 by LSP_Kevin

[Guest Peterpools]

WOW.....

Went back and read the entire build ... what a build and a fantastic tutorial. Absolutely first class.

Peter

[LSP_Kevin]

Again Kev, anything more you want tips on that I didnt cover, or anything you want me to detail further, I can go over here or you can send me a PM.

 

HTH, and cheers,

Brian

 

Thanks for taking the trouble over this Brian. Excellent tutorial. At this stage I just need to give your techniques a whirl and practice a bit. The Tamiya MiG-15 is my test kit at this stage (and what a great little kit it is too!), so I just have to be prepared for a less than perfect job as I earn my stripes. I may post some photos and questions about it here in this thread, as I don't really want to do a build thread on it.

 

Kev

[Guest Peterpools]

Kev

Looking forward to seeing how the Mig turns out.

Peter

[Edgar Brooks]

I've been making my own foil adhesive for more than 10 years, and have sold gallons of the stuff. Although it's water-based (and is brush, or airbrush, able,) I suspect that your postal service would have kittens if I tried to send some (I sent some to the U.S., and it just vanished.) If you P.M. me, I can give you the basics of the formula, and you should be able to find your own ingredients. U.K. residents can get it from Little-Cars (or me.)

Edgar

[Daywalker]

Brian- Awesome, thanks for the tips!

 

I remember after reading the article on Dixie Boy I went out and bought a roll of the heavy duty foil planning to (like Kevin) foil my Tamiya MiG-15. I have been thinking about it again lately, and your tutorial has perfect timing. Thanks for the advice!

[Out2gtcha]

Thanks guys, hope it helps in some way, and as Ken and I always say, hope it gets more people into the joys of foiling! It really does have some great properties.....like NOT being silver paint for one..........and being able to wipe any and everything off of it if your not happy with whatever you put on it. Its also (with proper cleaning and graining) easy to paint over without using primer either.

 

 

WOW.....

Went back and read the entire build ... what a build and a fantastic tutorial. Absolutely first class.

Peter

 

Thanks Peter.

is a short vid of the ol girl starting up.....she does sound magical even on the ground...................I do miss her. Probably why Ive got a hankering to start a Tam 51!

 

Brian

[LDSmodeller]

Thanks guys, hope it helps in some way, and as Ken and I always say, hope it gets more people into the joys of foiling! It really does have some great properties.....like NOT being silver paint for one..........and being able to wipe any and everything off of it if your not happy with whatever you put on it. Its also (with proper cleaning and graining) easy to paint over without using primer either.

Brian

 

Brian

 

I have read through your post, wow, the bleach and coins/shot

treatment was fantastic, I'm definately going to try that.

 

Thanks for Posting, and Kevin thanks for asking the question that prompted

this thread

 

Regards

 

Alan

[LSP_Kevin]

Thanks for Posting, and Kevin thanks for asking the question that prompted

this thread

 

Hey, no problem! While I did it for my own selfish reasons, I'm glad others are finding this thread useful, and I thank Brian once again for generously sharing his knowledge and techniques with us in such a detailed and unselfish fashion.

 

For me, I've hit a bit of a snag with the MiG. I bought the kit for next-to-nothing at a swap meet last year. The original owner had removed a few parts from the trees (badly), and painted a few bits (with a house paint and a broom by the look of it). Oddly, he'd also cut up all the decals, and then promptly mixed them up with decals from other sources! Anyway, none of this bothers me, but today I realised that some vital parts from the engine assembly are missing. This means I'll have to secure the jet pipe inside the rear fuselage somehow, without the benefit of those parts that would ordinarily secure it to the rear of the forward fuselage. There's always something, eh?

 

I'll be back in the next few days with some more specific questions about this foiling caper!

 

Kev