Dragon Zerstorer...

[Ads]

If i was making a series of models in a new scale , i would definately start with something which would sell well and hasnt been made for about 30 or so years - i think it was a great choice. And probably for them a great commercial choice as well

 

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[ssculptor]

Will someone please explain to me what "trolling" is all about.

If Matty and Metz are accusing me of it I would think I should at least have a definition of the term.

This is still the United States, isn't it? Freedom of speech and all that?

Hmmmmm?

[LSP_Matt]

Will someone please explain to me what "trolling" is all about.

This is still the United States, isn't it? Freedom of speech and all that?

 

Cmon...you're not quite on a walking frame yet Stephen. Type troll into google and the first hit you'll get is the definition in Wikipedia. No one's accused you of it...yet. Trolling wouldn't rate a mention if you'd only stay away from the cantankerous stuff where just becasue someone isn't doing things in your preferred way you hold them in pure contemp. Ye gads... Cmon...pure contempt?? How about you're just disappointed and think its a missed opportunity for them and leave it at that?

 

Just to be nice and clear this (LSP) isn't the United States ... . There are certain rules for posting on LSP and they exist for a range of reasons, one of which is to keep things polite.

 

HTH...

 

Cheers Matty

 

PS Ironwolf...thanks for the info...interesting reading :-) Good job on the F18

[ssculptor]

Thanks Matty,

Wikipikie's definition of troll and trolling is as follows.

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

 

I assure you I am not doing that just to get a rise out of someone. I do have better things to do.

 

As to criticizing a manufacturer I do not consider that a bad thing to do. It is almost an honored tradition, especially in the press. You should have seen the flack hit the fan when the Edsel came out in the mid 1950's.

 

Tell you wnat, I'll just stick to extolling the companies that bring out kits on new subject matter and stop banging the klutz companies. That should tone down the controversy a bit. I'll just be less negative and more positive.

 

On that positive note have you noticed that Jeff Roberts has added new kits to his 1/32 Combat Models range of vacuforms?

He is now offering:

Lockheed T-33 Shooting Star (New)

Lockheed Hudson (New)

Sikosky S.39 (New)

Romero Ro-37 (New)

Fairey Swordfish (Re-Issued)

His link is

http://www.combatmodels.us

 

Love and kisses

Stephen

[LSP_Ray]

Tell you wnat, I'll just stick to extolling the companies that bring out kits on new subject matter and stop banging the klutz companies. That should tone down the controversy a bit. I'll just be less negative and more positive.

 

That would be good, Stephen. You ARE on the razor's edge of trolling with some of your comments. My finger has hovered over the delete key a few times, but I have resisted. Though you have finally put me over the edge enough to make a comment.

 

Your comments on Dragon don't make any sense. You praise their AFV line for taking chances, yet downplay the aircraft line after only two kits? I must point out that if you are poo-pooing DML for re-doing aircraft kits already on the market, yet aplaud them for the chances they are taking on their armor side; you must know that DML has re-tooled their Tiger I twice, retooled the Hummel and Hornisse twice, Tiger II twice, Panther series twice, Shermans twice, and are currently redoing their entire Pz IV line, same with the Brummbar, and have been in an out-and-out war with AFV Club with the 251's, most having been duplicated between them, same sort of war with Tristar with Pz I's, Pz38t's, Shermans and now with Tamiya with the PzII's. The kind of duplication that would throw you into a apoleptic fit!!! Not to mention many of these kits - the PzII, PzIV, and especially the Tiger I and Panther - were done by Tamiya in the 70's. By your thinking, we should have all been happy with the horrible Tamiya kits, all tweaked in dimensions to be able to be motorized, rather than get new updated kits. I can assure you no one else in the modeling community is sorry to see the old Tamiya kits go (most which have been re-tooled by Tamiya btw). To DML, what with the war they are going through with other companies in armor, I am sure they are seeing a big opportunity in 1/32nd scale with what they probably consider no competition. The 30+ year old Revell kits are way out of date in regard to current tooling ability, multimedia parts, and for the most part, available research. While it would be nice to see all- new subjects, it is also very nice to see modern kits of some of the classics! I for one, in the process of trying to finish one of the Revell Mirages, with much swearing at the lack of detail and poor fit, would buy a new tool Mirage at the drop of a hat!!!

 

So do what you want, vote with your wallet, but I think I can speak for many that keep your keyboard quiet for awhile and wait till we see what the outcome is. I believe if sales go well, we will see some new, sensational kits from them.

[ssculptor]

So do what you want, vote with your wallet, but I think I can speak for many that keep your keyboard quiet for awhile and wait till we see what the outcome is. I believe if sales go well, we will see some new, sensational kits from them.

OK, lets see what Dragon comes out with in 1/32 airplane kits in the future.

I'll keep my mouth shut with reference to their line. As far as I am concerned they do not exist, except for the P-51 on which I am currently modifying the rivets as I build it.

You are correct about the first Tamiya kits. Their Tamiya Mokei kits of the 1963 era were toys, not accurate scale models. Even I'll admit that.

Of course, the early Tamiya Mokei tank kits are now selling for $500+ to collectors on ebay, but that is a different matter.

Stephen

[ssculptor]

That would be good, Stephen. You ARE on the razor's edge of trolling with some of your comments. My finger has hovered over the delete key a few times, but I have resisted. Though you have finally put me over the edge enough to make a comment.

 

Your comments on Dragon don't make any sense. You praise their AFV line for taking chances, yet downplay the aircraft line after only two kits? I must point out that if you are poo-pooing DML for re-doing aircraft kits already on the market, yet aplaud them for the chances they are taking on their armor side; you must know that DML has re-tooled their Tiger I twice, retooled the Hummel and Hornisse twice, Tiger II twice, Panther series twice, Shermans twice, and are currently redoing their entire Pz IV line, same with the Brummbar, and have been in an out-and-out war with AFV Club with the 251's, most having been duplicated between them, same sort of war with Tristar with Pz I's, Pz38t's, Shermans and now with Tamiya with the PzII's. The kind of duplication that would throw you into a apoleptic fit!!! Not to mention many of these kits - the PzII, PzIV, and especially the Tiger I and Panther - were done by Tamiya in the 70's. By your thinking, we should have all been happy with the horrible Tamiya kits, all tweaked in dimensions to be able to be motorized, rather than get new updated kits. I can assure you no one else in the modeling community is sorry to see the old Tamiya kits go (most which have been re-tooled by Tamiya btw). To DML, what with the war they are going through with other companies in armor, I am sure they are seeing a big opportunity in 1/32nd scale with what they probably consider no competition. The 30+ year old Revell kits are way out of date in regard to current tooling ability, multimedia parts, and for the most part, available research. While it would be nice to see all- new subjects, it is also very nice to see modern kits of some of the classics! I for one, in the process of trying to finish one of the Revell Mirages, with much swearing at the lack of detail and poor fit, would buy a new tool Mirage at the drop of a hat!!!

 

So do what you want, vote with your wallet, but I think I can speak for many that keep your keyboard quiet for awhile and wait till we see what the outcome is. I believe if sales go well, we will see some new, sensational kits from them.

Ray, I have to add a post script to my response to your message above.

Not all of us really care about the great degree of accuracy that a number of modelers and companies are striving for.

You say that Dragon is constantly revamping their kits to make them more and more accurate.

Fine. But I simply do not care how accurate the kit is. The first issue of the kit by Dragon may not be as accurate as its second or even third revision, but the first is close enough for me.

I do not require that high degree of accuracy.

Close enuf is good enuf for me.

Not all modelers march to the beat of your particular drummer.

It is now obvious to me, thanks to your explanation, that Dragon is striving to make the most accurate kits and they will redo a kit again and again to try to reach that level of accuracy. I hadn't realized this before.

OK. They have the right to do that. That is their policy and their direction. There are enough modelers who appreciate that so they will purchase the newer more accurate renditions of the same particular tank.

All that means to me is that I should not expect Dragon to behave differently when it comes to airplanes.

Thanks to your explanation I now understand that and I will say no more about their products.

Those of us who are satisfied by Revell kits will continue to buy them and those who have the same goals as Dragon will buy theirs.

No problem. We simply have different criteria.

I will continue to work on my Dragon P-51 since I have started it, but I will continue to do it my way.

We march to the beat of different drummers.

Model on.

Stephen

[Ads]

Ill tell you what - if Dragon released another Panzer111 or tiger or panther no one would be upset, just happy for another option, no one is going to go ut of their way for a rare in real life greek tank , or an egyptian armoured car - i say if the kit is good just be happy our scale is getting better and bigger. Your time will come Stephen, just like i felt that the last year or so was my birthday with all of the jugs coming out.

 

Patience mate

 

and yes sometimes it does look like you are picking a fight, i think we all know - well i do anyway , that you are just passionate about things.

 

ADS

[LSP_Mike]

Ray, thank you for spelling out how lizard actually works w/ regards to their tooling, and choice of subjects. Smart kits aren't really smart, all the time. Pretty much all you left out is their rabid, and malicious attacks on other model companies that are competition: Bugler, Pony, 2 star, 3star, pocket, ETC. I 'm curious if this same attitude will prevail if they keep on w/ 1/32 planes.

[ssculptor]

Ill tell you what - if Dragon released another Panzer111 or tiger or panther no one would be upset, just happy for another option, no one is going to go ut of their way for a rare in real life greek tank , or an egyptian armoured car - i say if the kit is good just be happy our scale is getting better and bigger. Your time will come Stephen, just like i felt that the last year or so was my birthday with all of the jugs coming out.

 

Patience mate

 

and yes sometimes it does look like you are picking a fight, i think we all know - well i do anyway , that you are just passionate about things.

 

ADS

Hi Ads,

Yes, thanks to Ray I now understand how Dragon operates They apparently specialize in 1/35 tanks and military figures. I understand now that there is really no reason for me to comment on their airplane models. Their orientation is not mine.

On the other hand, I am really grateful to them for making those 1/35 scale military railroad cars. Both the regular cars from that era and the armored railroad scout cars.

As far as Kinetic is concerned, I still think they would have done better to issue the F-84 in 1/32 scale rather than another

F-86.

 

Besides, why worry? We are in a feast of 1/32 new models Trumpeter is always issuing new stuff, PCM will announce a new model in a few weeks and Revell will release their JU.88 soon.

I'm on cloud #9 with all the new kits being released.

Its a fun time and I'll try to be less grumpy.

[thierry laurent]

Stephen,

 

I think you've to integrate another variable in the "risk" equation...: the risk is not only linked to the topic chosen but to the development costs that are normally far higher than the production ones!

 

I wrote "normally" because this is far to be systematic... I mean it is not really complicated to pantograph a quarter scale kit from another company to release it in another scale. Neither is it difficult to copy an aftermarket decal sheet to release a new kit with "new decals"...

 

Analyze thoroughly many of the new kits released for some years and you'll see a lot of "odd" similarities, particularly in Chinese and Korean kits from some companies. It is not new: more than twenty years ago, ESCI released slightly modified copies of Hasegawa aircraft kits.

 

Is it a problem for modellers? yes and no. "Yes" because some companies take illegal benefit (copyright/trademark infrigement) from the work done by others that were not clever enough to release several versions/variants of the same topic and "No" because this "shakes" the market and gives to some customers what they were dying for ages...

 

Do not forget the "strange" similarities between Spitfires MkV and MkIX kits ... or between resin and plastic Tony kits ;-)

 

I'll give you a final example: Aftermarket companies use to copy plastic parts from mainstream kits for some components of their detail kits whereas some mainstream companies released variants of kits that copy resin conversion sets. BEST example I know: modified copy of the Tamiya M113 + modified copy of Verlinden M163 resin conversion = Academy 1/35th Vulcan M163!

 

You may like or dislike a company for whatever reason you want (I love many Dragon kits but hate their communication policy). However, please keep in mind that you're actually discussing BUSINESS strategies...

 

My 2 cents.

[ssculptor]

You may like or dislike a company for whatever reason you want (I love many Dragon kits but hate their communication policy). However, please keep in mind that you're actually discussing BUSINESS strategies...

My 2 cents.

Hello again Thierry,

 

Speaking of buainess strategies, what do you think of Trumpeter's new 1/32 Su-27UB Flanker C 2-Seater Russian Trainer Aircraft Kit with 445 parts including metal ally landing struts, a metal alloy pilot figure, photo etched hinges and harness parts, metal shock springs, screws and flaps and aileron rotating shafts?

 

Personally I think its a great idea to include all those parts. The MSRP is $200, Great Models is selling it for $150. Others like Sprue Bros may sell it for less.

 

That is a lot of money, but, if it is an accurate kit with a minimum of imperfections then it is a bargain at $150. With all those parts one does not have to buy another $100 worth of after market detail kits. Everything is already in the box.

 

The $150 is not too high a price when you figure how much time it will take a modeler to make this kit. Thats a lot of fun and pleasure that will last for a long building time.

 

The extra parts will not mean that much to guys like me because I will leave out a lot of the interior parts. I just do not care for the inner details, so the cost to me will be relatively high. But I will buy the kit because it is the only game in town for the Su-27. I'll just wait a while to see if anyone puts it on sale.

 

I think its a good deal for all concerned. Yes, even for me because a resin kit would normally cost $150-$225 and an IM kit is so much better than a resin kit.

 

Have you had a chance to examine that kit yet?

 

Stephen

[LSP_Matt]

Trumpeter's new 1/32 Su-27UB Flanker C 2-Seater Russian Trainer Aircraft Kit with 445 parts including metal ally landing struts, a metal alloy pilot figure, photo etched hinges and harness parts, metal shock springs, screws and flaps and aileron rotating shafts?

 

I just got one when it was on special last month...cost $118. What a massive kit. Have been wondering about a Russian Knights scheme. Other stuff to finish before that one though...tempting as it is.

[thierry laurent]

This kit is waiting for me in my favourite shop!

 

Most of the most obvious errors of the single seat have been corrected (windscreen, air intakes,nozzles, etc.).

 

However, some are still there and stay nasty ones to correct (e.g. shape of wing tip pylons, nose length, etc.) and others may have been so easily corrected I do not understand why they are yet present (the single-seat kit had badly dimensionned air to air missiles whereas the Mig-29K and the separate russian weapons set has far better ones...guess which sprue is in the kit: the older one...!)

 

BTW, I love Trumpy kits even with "so many" glaring errors ;-D

[DaveJ]

This kit is waiting for me in my favourite shop!

 

Most of the most obvious errors of the single seat have been corrected (windscreen, air intakes,nozzles, etc.).

 

However, some are still there and stay nasty ones to correct (e.g. shape of wing tip pylons, nose length, etc.) and others may have been so easily corrected I do not understand why they are yet present (the single-seat kit had badly dimensionned air to air missiles whereas the Mig-29K and the separate russian weapons set has far better ones...guess which sprue is in the kit: the older one...!)

 

BTW, I love Trumpy kits even with "so many" glaring errors ;-D

 

This is also an example of 'who copies what from whom' in that many of the corrections Trumpeter made were based on (if not copied directly from) the Zactomodels conversion kit.