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F-4D Phantom II Phantom Viet Nam Phantom

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#1 D.B. Andrus

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 06:52 PM

...for USAF F-4D ca. 1966-68, SEA camouflage. Tamiya's callout is Dark Gull Gray - any other information will be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,
D.B. Andrus


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#2 Barry

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 09:46 PM

I'm by no means an expert but the intake trunking was white or some dirty shade of white.

Barry

#3 Guest_TimC_*

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 10:42 PM

Every Phantom II intake I've ever seen (I've seen a couple or three) have been gloss whiteinside from the splitter plate back to the face of the compressor. Granted pollution, dirt and dust will give them a dirty, windblown look but the basic shade is gloss white.

#4 JamesHatch

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 10:53 PM

Still waiting for my seamless Rhino's, but thanks for the info...

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#5 Av8fan

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 11:18 PM

I hope that the mods do not mind, but here is a 1/32nd F-4 build

It may shed some light

chuck's f-4E build

Edited by Av8fan, 12 February 2011 - 11:20 PM.


#6 D.B. Andrus

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 01:46 AM

Thank you, gentlemen, you've helped a great deal!

I've some B + W photos of 66-8733 & 66-8714 ca. '67-'68 with set of 4 devices equally spaced in circumference attached to the nose behind the radome. They stand proud of the surface and are shaped like NACA scoops, pointed end facing forward. Anyone heard of this type of installation? Will try and post an image on a separate thread soon.

Thanks Again,

D.B.

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#7 Barry

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 04:16 PM

If they are located; viewing a/c head on at approx. 2, 5, 7 and 10 o'clock.
These devices are ER-142/ALR-53 Homing Antennas.

Are these aircraft that were converted to Wild Weasel configuration?
The ER-142/ALR-53 installation "I think" was exclusive to airframes converted to Wild Weasels.
This modification was done to C as well as some D models.

Barry

#8 D.B. Andrus

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 10:07 PM

If they are located; viewing a/c head on at approx. 2, 5, 7 and 10 o'clock.
These devices are ER-142/ALR-53 Homing Antennas.

Are these aircraft that were converted to Wild Weasel configuration?
The ER-142/ALR-53 installation "I think" was exclusive to airframes converted to Wild Weasels.
This modification was done to C as well as some D models.

Barry


Thanks, Barry.

Yes, the antennae were mounted at approx. 2,5, 7 & 10 o'clock positions. I'm not aware of any Wild Weasel training/ops conducted at that time. That doesn't mean they didn't take place, though. Read somewhere the a/c in this serial block were LORAN equipped, however they didn't appear to have that equipment during this deployment.

These a/c were with the 13th TFS 432nd TRW - Tail Code OC -deployed at Udorn in 67-68. I'm constructing a 1/32 model for a good friend who flew F-4's (the squadron also flew C-47 Spooky gunships)with them during that time period. I'm working from period photos (B & W 8 x 10's and Kodachrome slides) of a/c serial numbers: 66-8709; 8714; 8716; 8721; 8730 & 8733. All are equipped with the aforementioned antennae.

When I get permission from the owner, I will post images.

Best regards,
D.B.

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#9 Barry

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 11:20 PM

D.B.

Information covering actual tail numbers is hard to come by. The source I have states" 36 early-model F-4C's from FY63-64 Blocks 16-24 were modified. They first reached operational status in 1969 they were not committed to combat until 1972 and were assigned TDY with the 67th TFS attached to the 388th TFW at Korat, RTAFB. They flew some 460 missions during and after the Linebacker II campaign.

I believe all the A/C numbers you've listed are D models and were not apart of this.
The first photo is the only one I can find of one of the tail numbers you have listed.
Photos are from: Squadron Signal Publications, Wild Weasel the SAM Suppression Story by: Larry Davis.
Photos posted here for illustration purposes only under Fair Use:http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

Caption on photo confirms and explains what you've found in your research.
Posted Image

Drawing illustrating antenna location as you can see the aircraft above has these antennas.
Posted Image

Photo of 67th TFS F-4D on the ramp at Korat all 67th a/c carried the ZG tail code.
I've denoted the antenna in question.
Posted Image

This photo shows the location of the ER-142/ALR-53 DF antenna shown in the drawing.
Posted Image

Hope this will be helpful.
Barry

#10 D.B. Andrus

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 01:58 AM

Very helpful, Barry, thank you.

Will try & post photos this week.

BTW, very much looking forward to your F-4 cockpit project. Have been working on the Avionix F-4D cockpit, other than a worn out mold for an ejection seat it's mostly very well done. Installation is proving to be an interesting experience.

Best Regards,
D.B.

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#11 thierry laurent

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 10:16 AM

Hello!

Funny! I never realized such antennae had been used on F-4Ds (All the serial numbers you mentioned are type D block 32 airplanes).

As far as I knew, such antennae were indeed used on the so-called "EF-4Cs". They were indeed initially used in Vietnam by the 67th TFS (ZG tail code, Korat, 1972) and then transfered from Korat to different overseas units. If my memory's right, the last ones were in the ANG and retired late (at least at the very end of the eigthies).

In Vietnam, most if not all of the EF-4C got nose art such as 63-7470 "Rub-a-dub-dub 2 men in a tub", 63-7423 "Jail Bait", 63-7474 "Brain Damage", 64-0840, "Super Cocks Swiss Samlar" or 64-0791 "Squirrely Bird". A common warload was 2/3 fuel tanks, an ALQ-109, two AGM-45 Shrike missiles and two Sparrow missiles. AFAIK, the only 1/32 decal sheet was released by Superscale many years ago. Rub-a-dub-dub was the EF-4C included option, other schemes were dedicated to F-4Es.

Note the few EF-4Ds were only prototypes which never left CONUS and opened the path to the future F-4G conversion.

As Barry wrote, LORAN equiped planes are completely different birds. AFAIK, no F-4C received LORAN modification. It was only set-up in batches of F-4Ds and RF-4Cs. 72 D models from blocks 32 and 33 were equipped with LORAN (out of Block 32: 66-8699 to 66-8786 and Block 33: 66-8787 to 66-8825). Note in 1974 the Ubon LORAN D models (FA code) were transfered with other birds to Korat's 34th TFS who left their E models.

FYI, EF-4C serial numbers are:

- Block 16: 63-7423, 63-7433, 63-7437, 63-7440
- Block 17: 63-7443, 63-7447, 63-7452, 63-7459, 63-7462, 63-7467
- Block 18: 63-7470, 63-7474, 63-7478, 63-7481, 63-7508, 63-7512, 63-7413
- Block 19: 63-7564, 63-7565, 63-7567, 63-7574, 63-7594, 63-7596
- Block 20: 63-7607, 63-7615, 63-7623
- Block 22: 64-0675
- Block 23: 64-0741, 64-0757, 64-0781, 64-0787, 64-0790, 64-0791, 64-0815
- Block 24: 64-0840, 64-0844 & 64-0847

To go back to the model, building the antennae is a little bit time consuming but not really difficult. The big problem is the WSO IP...!

I'm looking for such information for at least ten years, have discussed via the Phantom forum with pilots and crew chiefs and asked Jake Melampy if he did not get some info when he made his excellent USAF Phantom book but no way...

I just know that during the EF modification, they added dedicated instruments at the 1 or 2 o'clock position on the WSO's IP. However, they were removed after the Vietnam operations when they were transfered in Kadena and Spangdahlem. They just left the empty instrument bracket. Up to now, I've yet to see a picture of the instruments.

As such antennae were used on D models, I'm wondering if such planes got the same cockpit IP modification?

Thierry

#12 thierry laurent

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 10:24 AM

More info:

I checked in my notes and indeed early F-4Ds also had the four RHAW antennas right behind the nose radome. It was linked to the APR-25/26 ECM system used on the D. Such antennae may be identified on F-4Ds deployed in Vietnam at the end of the sixties. It seems the system was not very successful and was removed even if the antennae stayd on the airframes (as it was the case with the EF-4C).

HTH

#13 Tony T

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 11:16 AM

Hi D B,

My research from yore tells me that the diamond-shaped antennae fitted around the nose barrel on F-4Ds c.67-70 was associated with the Bendix APS-107 RHAWS and was standard at that time. (They looked the same as the ER-142/ALR-53 devices fitted to the F-4C Weasels as depicted by Barry, which had a bunch of other antennae not on the F-4D, including a pallet).

You should be able to build a 'stock' F-4D cockpit, unless depicting a LORAN example which had a 'wall' of instruments in the back seat.

The only problem with LORAN AN/ARN-92 PAVE Phantom aircraft is that they originally had the LORAN antennae located in the fincap, with the UHF antenna relocated to the dorsal fuselage, offset to the right of the spine, so are not immediately obvious. The fincap installation presented problems so the 'Towel rail' was introduced. However, I believe that this early LORAN config weas flown only by the 8th TFW.

66-8709; 8714; 8730 & 8733 were LORAN mod aircraft, though I cannot provide exact dates for when they were modified.

If you're doing a 13th TFS/OC jet from 67-68 I think it's a safe bet to say that the diamond-shaped nose antennae should be included but you can skip on the LORAN/PAVE Phantom gear in the back seat cockpit. The 432nd TRW had some LORAN jets later, but not in 67-68. However, I stand to be corrected on that if anyone else has further info.

Tony T
Finally spraying again

#14 Barry

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 11:50 PM

Excellent research and thanks for sharing Thierry and Tony.
The variety of systems and configuration of the Phantom never ceases to amaze me!
:speak_cool:

#15 Derek B

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 09:38 AM

Excellent research and thanks for sharing Thierry and Tony.
The variety of systems and configuration of the Phantom never ceases to amaze me!
:speak_cool:


...Isn't LSP wonderful!^_^ ...

Derek

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