Question for the Phantom Gurus....re: JASDF RF-4E's...

[bdthoresen]

HI All. Was recently going through all of the great builds in the Groupbuild, and it made me realize how little I know about the F-4 Phantom. I have been trolling the net for pictures, and came across a JASDF RF-4E in a two-tone blue scheme much like the F-2 fighters that caught my eye. I have the Revell RF-4C, and understand that it has the parts for an RF-4E in the box as well. I read online that the RF-4E had different exhausts, and that the nose profiles of the JASDF birds were more rounded in shape as opposed to the more slab sided nose of the C model. My question is, what would it take to convert the RF-4C kit into an RF-4E of the JASDF? I have the tweak list compiled by Ben Brown and Theirry, so I am aware of the general shortfalls of the kit. I would like to build a Phantom, having never done so, so what do I need to know? I am not too interested in having a superdetailed build, but more of a representation that I can get close to the actual article. I will add any details I can from scratch, not wanting to spend any dosh on aftermarket.

 

Are there any markings available for these Phantoms? Also, any more decent online refs for these birds?

 

Thanks for any and all halp you guys can give me...

 

Warm Regards-

 

THOR

[Dave Williams]

Making an RF-4E out of the RF-4C kit is as simple as using the unused long exhausts and curved inboard pylons that are in the kit as unused parts. However, getting the later rounded nose is more of a problem as no one has ever made that conversion in 1/32 scale, so you would have to scratchbuild that. I'm not sure if any of the JASDF RF-4Es used the flat nose as in the kit. Also, I don't know of any Japanese RF-4E decals. You can probably get some Japanese F-4 decals but I think the RFs were concentrated in 501 Squadron and I don't think any decals were made that included their Woody Woodpecker squadron badge. I didn't know that any RF-4Es had been painted in the blue F-2 scheme. I've only seen the gun nosed F-4EJs from 8 Squadron in that scheme.

[Out2gtcha]

Also, I don't know of any Japanese RF-4E decals. You can probably get some Japanese F-4 decals but I think the RFs were concentrated in 501 Squadron and I don't think any decals were made that included their Woody Woodpecker squadron badge.

 

Im not sure how complex or "airbrushed" the Woody Wookpecker badge is, but if its not too WWII nose art like, you could easily go to Ian @ Ad Astra masks and have him cut you an entire set of paint masks for any airframe you would like. I think to date Ian has cut 3 or 4 different airframe masks for me.

 

You can iquire Ian from Ad Astra HERE:

 

custom@adastramasks.com

 

Just send him the best pics of the scheme you want (3 views are best) and then he can respond and determine if your scheme is possible. Also if Ian can do your scheme, he would likely ask for some simple dimensions of the 32nd kit (say wingtip inside missile pylon or vertical stab at teh top) to get the scaling for 1/32 right.

 

One of the best, fastest and slickest products around. Masks are cut SO fine in fact, I had to take them out of the package and hold them up to the light to make sure anything was actually cut into the plastic sheet.

 

Brian

Edited April 8, 2011 by Out2gtcha

[thierry laurent]

Hello,

 

AFAIK, there is no JSDAF RF-4E decals. I think you make a mistake: F-4EJ Kai of the Panther Squadron (specialized in maritime attack) were AFAIK the sole Phantom user of the blue scheme. Recco birds mainly used a three-tone sand-green camo scheme.

 

Different sets have however been released for F-4EJ (early or Kai) by CAM, Zotz, Hobby Decal, Flying Papa and Phoenix decals. Keep in mind nonetheless that most of the sets are either OOP or difficult to find. I don't think one set was neither released for the RF-4EJ. Hence, you will have to get decals for a F-4EJ and find a way to add the missing ones (such as the Woody Woodpecker head of the 501 Hikotai). Ordering the Tamiya sheet from the F-4EJ kit 60314 is also an option. As mentioned, using masks for the missing items is a good solution.

 

As mentioned by Dave, there is no obvious difference between a JSDAF RF-4E and the kit you own except the nose. There are various discrepancies to correct and details to add but you've all the basic elements in the box to build a JSDAF RF-4E. Modifying the nose is time-consuming but not so difficult as far as you use materials you're confident in: epoxy putty or thick plastic card and CA glue.

Obviously, if you want to add specific recco pods or any other type of exotic equipement, you're again on your own...

 

Here is an interesting view of the JASDF RF-4E rear pit: http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4567/rf4ewsopit.jpg

 

The recent Model Art issue (http://www.ipmsusa2.org/reviews/Books/Aircraft/model_art/model-art_jasdf-f4.htm) is probably the best reference you may use.

 

HTH

Edited April 8, 2011 by thierry laurent

[thierry laurent]

Oooops!

 

I forgot another difference: Last RF-4Es used were updated to Kai standards. This means they got double antennae on the aft edge of the tail tip and RHAW antennae on the wing tips. The abovementioned book has good pictures and drawings showing such antennae. A good search on the web will also give nice pictures.

 

I shall check at home if there were changes in the cockpit as I cannot remember this aspect.

 

Regards

[Barry]

THOR,

 

Here a couple of photos of the 'early and late" style noses on the RF-4C.

I'm not sure of the differences if any between the late RF-4C and RF-4E.

Photos are from Aerofax Minigraph 13.

Posted for illustration purposes only. Fair Use;http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

 

Early

 

 

Late

 

 

 

Barry

Edited April 8, 2011 by Barry

[MarkS]

Hey Thor,

 

The "Defenders of Nippon: F-4 Phantom II" book, lists a RF-4E of 501 Hikotai with an experimental two tone blue scheme "possibly FS35488 and FS35526". The drawing in the book shows the colors in a pretty "standard" upper surfaces one color lower the other color scheme, not the pattern used on the F-2 scheme. All the other profiles for RF-4Es in this book are either gull grey over white or the green/green/tan over grey.

 

Mark in dreary Wisconsin

 

P.S. Here's a fancy scheme if you're feeling adventurous:

 

http://www.5053phantoms.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=34&pid=3281#top_display_media

Edited April 8, 2011 by MarkS

[Kagemusha]

Wolfpack design had a RF-4EJ conversion listed as a future release, but sadly this is no longer the case. I'm pretty certain none of the F-4EJ decals released are suitable, aside from the Hobby Decal sheet for the Wolfpack Design Kai conversion, as the Hinomaru's are too big. If you have a hard wing E you could build it as one of these http://www.airliners.net/photo/Japan---Air/Mitsubishi-RF-4EJ-Kai/1272884/L/&sid=f20f0a246a25d5d2aef92792c4d39a86 and though it stated it's a Kai, I don't think it is as it's missing the bumps on the top rear of the fin as can be seen on this example http://www.airliners.net/photo/Japan---Air/Mitsubishi-RF-4EJ-Kai/1656612/L/&sid=362bc08d9b92728603fcc07f4cbaf9e9

[thierry laurent]

You're right, the first none is not a Kai.

 

However, regarding the decals, other sets (such as the Phoenix ones) have correctly sized Hinomarus.

[bdthoresen]

Thanks all for the replies. Looks like I need to try and get some more info on those decals.....Hm. As it turns out Thierry, the photo I was looking at is of an F-4EJ Kai, not an RF-4. Amazes me how I know so much about World War 2 airplanes, but do not know squat about jets.....Hm....

 

Mark- Thanks for the link, although it is a cool scheme, not my cup of tea......

 

Barry- Thanks a bunch for those photos...That will let me see what I have to do to the nose.

 

I am excited to finally be researching something different that I have never built before. I am off to troll the net some more to see what else I can come up with.......

 

Thanks guys-

 

THOR. who will have more questions!

[Dave Williams]

As a final note, there is a difference between the RF-4E and the RF-4EJ. The RF-4Es were the camera nosed F-4s. The RF-4EJ is a gun-nosed F-4EJ modified to carry various recon pods under the centerline pylon. Without the pods it looks like a standard F-4EJ or -Kai.

[MarkS]

Thor, are you attached to a Japanese aircraft? AirDoc makes a number of RF-4E decal sets for German aircraft (also RF-4Cs). Victory Models has them in stock.

 

Mark

[MarkS]

As a final note, there is a difference between the RF-4E and the RF-4EJ. The RF-4Es were the camera nosed F-4s. The RF-4EJ is a gun-nosed F-4EJ modified to carry various recon pods under the centerline pylon. Without the pods it looks like a standard F-4EJ or -Kai.

 

Here's a link to some information on all this that presents a somewhat different take on this:

 

http://www.f-4.nl/f4_14.html

 

Mark Storin

[Dave Williams]

I believe that is old misleading information. Resent Japanese language books on the F-4 like J Wings #3 Military Aircraft of the JASDF, and other sources, always refer to the camera nosed versions as RF-4Es, never as RF-4EJs. I think there was an incorrect assumption on some authors part that since the Japanese version of the F-4E was called F-4EJ, that the recon versions would naturally be called RF-4EJ. Also the serial number list in the J Wings book indicates that only 15 F-4EJs were converted to RF-4EJs. After their conversion, their tail numbers were changed with a 6 replacing the 8 in the 4-digit part of the tail number (e.g. F-4EJ 77-8403 became RF-4EJ 77-6403).

Edited April 9, 2011 by Dave Williams

[MarkS]

I believe that is old misleading information. Resent Japanese language books on the F-4 like J Wings #3 Military Aircraft of the JASDF, and other sources, always refer to the camera nosed versions as RF-4Es, never as RF-4EJs. I think there was an incorrect assumption on some authors part that since the Japanese version of the F-4E was called F-4EJ, that the recon versions would naturally be called RF-4EJ. Also the serial number list in the J Wings book indicates that only 15 F-4EJs were converted to RF-4EJs. After their conversion, their tail numbers were changed with a 6 replacing the 8 in the 4-digit part of the tail number (e.g. F-4EJ 77-8403 became RF-4EJ 77-6403).

 

Interesting. Is it true that the RF-4Es were build by MD and not Mitsubishi? Could that be why they shouldn't have the "J" designation?

 

P.S. Sorry for stealing the thread Thor ;-)

 

Mark