Luftwaffe Experten Needed Please!!!

[Out2gtcha]

Just as the title says, Im looking for some advice from the Luftwaffe experts out there.............
Ive got a new "Secret" (well not that secret) 1/32nd project Im thinking of attempting to start for my IPMS chapters "Omacon 2014" coming up June 14th. That gives me just over a month to get this done.......
What I need from the Luftwaffe SMEs out there is this...............

I have some decals for this project which I believe are for Richthofen 71:





As well as for another group that I think has a hart on it in a shield maybe? I dont remember the exact look of that one ................Ill scan a pic of both of them tonight........
but what Im looking for is this:

1.) What Gruppe/Staffel are these?

2.) What would have been an appropriate markings for that group in a late war/What if scenario if the war had gone beyond 1945?

3.) What would have been an appropriate camo for late war Luftwaffe "experimental" type aircraft that maybe didnt fly, but were solid concepts/and or even had prototypes built?



I know there is not an really 100% solid way to say either way what these type aircraft looked like, or what their camo likely could have been, but Im just looking for some likely looks.......
likely markings, and likely camos for these groups if the war had progressed beyond 1945 and these Luft 46 type aircraft had actually made it into production.

Any help greatly appreciated

[dutik]

Heart on a shield? "Gruenherz", JG 54

 

This translates to "Green Heart". This refers to the green heart of Germany, the state of Thuringia.

 

 

As for What ifs - the RLM regulations would be still in use 1946. So take a look at late war aircraft like the Arrow, the Horten, the Owl, the Stormbird or the Salamander. Remember, that unpainted paneels started to be a common look in late war. First at lower sides, the Salamander even lacked most paint at the fuselage except the most upper paneels.

 

Regards

- dutik

Edited May 6, 2014 by dutik

[mywifehatesmodels]

For the time period during the war, the Richtoven shield shown above would be for JG 2. Typically not used later in the war, however. The rear fuselage "Reich Defense" band for JG 2 in the latter part of the war would have been yellow with white in the center. In a "what if" 1946 scenario, these bands would be a good possibility.

 

For the heart in a shield, are you sure it's not a red heart on a white diamond with yellow border? This would be from JG 77. Their band would be white/green, with the white half being in front. The band for JG 54 would be solid blue.

 

Camo of the time would likely be combinations of greens RLM 82 and 83, and 81 Violet Brown. However, others were still being used at the end of the war, also (like RLM 70/71/65 on bombers, 74/75/76 on fighters, or combinations of all that I just mentioned). The beauty of doing a 1946 scenario is that a lot of the "rules" were generally being broken by 1945 when it comes to camouflage.

 

Edit: forgot to add, potential fighters of this time period would likely be the Focke Wulf Ta 152 series, the Ta 183 jet fighter, Horton/Gotha Go 229 flying wing and plenty of others. For bombers, I think the Me 262 may have soldiered on in the fighter bomber role, as well as the Ju 388 for twin engine light/medium duty. These were just planes that were already in use or in prototype/design phases. There are plenty of other "blueprint" planes to choose from, as well.

 

Hope that helps.

 

John

Edited May 6, 2014 by mywifehatesmodels

[Martinnfb]

Hauptmann Menzel from 9/JG-77 had a red heart on his K4 as late as 1944

[Martinnfb]

Edited May 6, 2014 by Martinnfb

[mywifehatesmodels]

Martin and I were thinking along the same lines. I think JG 77 was one of the few units still using such emblems so late in the war.

[Zero77]

If this can help for identification of the LW fighters groups / staffels :

 

 

 

Tell me if you think this can represent a copyright issue. They are not scans but poor quality shots, so i think there's no problem. But if there is, let me know and i remove them.

 

 

If i remember correctly, the JGII Richtofen Bf109E had a very specific camo, with a very fine green motling (a kind of drybrush).

Edited May 6, 2014 by Zero77

[Out2gtcha]

Thanks guys!
 

 

From what I can remember of the decals, I think the heart was definitely not green/JG 54.      My !@#$%ing Ducati died on me on the way home last night and took me HOURS to get home, so I didn't get a chance to scan the decals that I have.

 

From what I remember, I think this might be JG 77.....................The "shield" I mentioned, now rings a bell more like a diamond. Ill def try to scan the pics in tonight, and once I get a determination as to what Gruppe/Staffel I have decals for, Ill likely try to decide a (fairly) plausible late war scheme for my "secret" Luft 46 project...............

 

 

HINT:

 

If you entered this aircraft in an IPMS contest, you could theoretically enter it in the "Jet" class.......................and you MIGHT even be able to get away with putting it in the "Helo" class.................or even if a particular judge looks at this aircraft the right way, maybe even "Prop" class!!!

 

 

GAME ON

Edited May 7, 2014 by Out2gtcha

[Hubert Boillot]

Triebflugel ...

 

Hubert

[Martinnfb]

too many hints

[dutik]

Phh, Triebflügel...

 

Convair Model 49

 

The shrouded-rotor vehicle was capable of vertical takeoff and landing, just like a helicopter, and was also capable of hovering, while dashing toward target area like an aircraft. The propulsion system consisted of three shroud-mounted Lycoming LTC4B-11 turboshaft engines.

 

 

 

 

THATs what I call "Luft 46"

- dutik

[Out2gtcha]

Triebflugel ...

 

Hubert

 

 

Well THAT didnt last long!

 

Its the 1/32nd Triebflugel made by Antares models for Models & More

[Hardcore]

My advice is this: first decide on the war situation as this influence cammo and markings.

 

Here are some thoughts: If it is a tribflugel then there is little need for markings that help with identification, like the RV-bands. The machine would always be instantly recognizable.

Theater markings could be possible, but lacking wing tips and proper underside they may just be bands around the fuselage.

 

An added conundrum is if the aircraft markings should be rotated 90 degrees:-). I suspect not, but it IS a tail sitter.

 

I expect sky blue being used only on night fighters.

With no wings, and a desire to conceal it well on the ground, I would paint it brown and green only.